Ocean View Properties

[Unregistered]

Guys, you should realize that getting the authorities involved is not going to happen unless we team up with a law firm(s), file a case in Court and request from the authorities (Crown Prosecutor, Polices Forces, SFO or whichever the equivalent is in Spain) a thorough investigation into that has happened.

Are we going to get the money back? Probably not, but at least the fraudsters, which we know are in the UK, Spain and the Dominican Republic, will be jailed for many years and will never ever con anyone else.

Is it throwing good money after bad? Well, it depends how much we are asked for but I would not mind paying up a couple of grand of my money to get a ruling from a Spanish/UK Court sentencing these assholes to many years in prison, a civil liability order to pay me back my money personally (whether they will one day remains to be seen) but mostly get the satisfaction of seeing that something was done.

I would like to ruin their lives just as they have with mine.

Anyone interested in joining me?

[Joey123]

Be Legal is poster of 420 correct? Can a law firm force the authorities to act? Any comments?

[ifv]

Be Legal is poster of 420 correct?

Not really, but thanks for asking. Anything we have to say, we will say it in our own name, as registered users, just like we've always done.

I take the opportunity to recommend everyone to register, so we know who is who, and avoid further confussion.

Thanks

[Unregistered]

Yes i am but rather than this vigilante feel why dont we plan it properly i feel as bad as you but it has not ruined my life i will not let it there are far worse things going on in the world and the sooner we can come across as a well organised group asking the right questions from the right people the sooner we will be able to move forward have you ever thought that as much as it pains me but if we could get some answers from the people at ocean view as to why this has happened we could then tie it all together my email address is pi505050@gmail.com .I am willing to help organise a group and sharing all the info we can until we can utilise the services of a good law firm and yes like you willing to spend a couple of grand to see justice but more importantly some or all of my money back and i know that can be done.

[Unregistered]

as a pp invester i have been informed by my lawyer the money will never be returned it is gone or in accts. that can not be traced. how many investors got money back from bernnie madof the largest scam in the world, none. the only hope is some jail time but with so much corruption in DR county he will get out of any trouble. All these posts give people hope but in realty everyone knows no money will be found or recovered. ricarda you are a expert at the scam, but someone will get to you and it may not be though legal ways but when you destroy lives someone will seek some justice, it happens all the time. hope you did not piss some one off who does follow the law like myself

[Joey123]

when you have Grant Thornton interviewing OVP people and also representatives of RM you begin to get a feel for the position. In terms of getting to the bottom of this, there is no single firm currently in a better position to ascertain the truth. GT have access to records from OVP. GT have the best chance of this and of recovering what assets they can. No law firm can begin to take a case with Sungolf without evidence of contracts. Even if contracts signed by just the investor to the agents is supposed to be sufficient to make a contract binding, there is no firm link that I can see to Sungolf. The only other people who might stand as good if not better chance is obviously the SFO.

What we have are very different stories from both sides. You can see this from the posting GT made,post 306, on this thread (and it is genuine). There are no signed agreeements between Sungolf and the Investors or between Sungolf and OVP (they alledge). Sungolf deny that OVP were agents. If you (other investors) think you can sue Sungolf then I just can't see how.

Whether OVP have been stitched up (or feel they have in there warped minds) or not, RM has made his position clear in that he received money for the EBCC site and refunded it in various ways. Proof of this is still outstanding.

I think it would be great if there could be a claim on Sungolf. I just cannot see existence of the evidence for such a claim. OVP had exclusivity over this site, i would say as they bought it effectively. But with no planning permission the deal was off. But the money was substantially spent as reported earlier.

let's form a united front though. If it can be done. But let a lawyer answer the above questions first. I know that Manilva Costa (I think) had claims recongnised against it despite signed contracts. Has anyone understood this and if it can be done in the same way with Sungolf. Also, is sungolf still trading or have substantial assets. What were the latest accounts filed and what was the financial position. Who is the owner of Sungolf? RM direct or another company or shareholders?

To me is seems like you need to:

1) Make a claim (test or group) in the Spanish legal system to see if a court will accept the contracts unilaterally signed by an investor is binding on Sungolf. Ok, I understand that's how it's done in Spain (very odd though and I feel should be changed so it is binding when both parties sign to avoid situations like this - and the Spanish lawyers should be pushing for this). To my layman's mind, due to this unilateral signing of contracts the burden of prooving the contractual position exisits is now on the purchaser;

2) Now we would need to present the case with the evidence to support it - which is what exactly?

Pesimistic or realisitc? I want justice and my money back. But what approach is best and why?

[Unregistered]

Does anyone have a lawyer that can give me some honest answers. I am beginning to think Flores here is just another puppet of CT and JK. Am I wrong or is it ethical for a solicitor to publish information that forms part of an investigation as he says. The sarcastic response to 409 is deserved, yet there are some valid points made. Could Flores just be looking clients to steal a bit more from, JK and CT certainly must think he can ring in a great set of suckers(Stuart Jones probably gave them the list of our names as well). Lets all talk to pi, he seems to be the much more sensible voice in all of this.

[Joey123]

Lawbird said they are working with GT to ascertain evidence of the position and will not have further information until later in the year. The last poster should not make such comments of the people behind this site. They are unfoundedand rude. PI wishes to get to the bottom of this, as do I. I have stated above that it it crucial to have evidence to bring a claim. Re-read my post above re my understanding. It is no different to Lawbird I beleive and any lawyer. No-one is going to be able to do ANYTHING without proof of the contractual relationship. no court will make a ruling if Sungolf can simply deny a contractual position and you cannot prove otherwise. Lawbird can not get this evidence without seeing paperwork from and speaking to the liquidators. Think about it please.

[Joey123]

poster 425. Please elaborate on why your lawyer said this and what country you are based in. Is is a gut feel comment or something more substantial? On what basis is the claim made. I don;t doubt it, but I would like to hear more. It just all "smells" if you know what I mean!

[aflores]

FOR CLARIFICATION PUPORSES

Hello,

When matters are dealt with through a Criminal Court it is because there is substantial evidence that a crime has been committed. In these instances it is not necessary to prove that you had a binding contract as what would need to be proved is that there was a concerted action to defraud the interests of people (1 or 1 thousand).

Unless cash is paid and no receipt given money always leaves a trace and that trace will invariably lead to the final recipients of the cash. That is, of course, if Mr. Miranda does not speak out before as he knows exactly where the money went and who his partners are.

Lawbird has not obtained information from GT nor is depending on GT in respect of any information we publish. GT is a private company specializing in auditing, management consulting and other financial tasks, is regulated by professional bodies and as such has limitations as to the information they can gather and the information they supply.

Lawbird is a Spanish law firm and is in contact with the Spanish authorities, who are ready to act as soon as there is a legal suit filed in Courts (Audiencia Nacional, given the multiple contacts with other jurisdictions), via the Spanish Prosecution Office (Fiscalia) or at the National Police.

This thread is now clearly being infiltrated by undesirable posters who only wish to bring confusion to the efforts made to clarify this massive scam, and unfortunately is now contaminated.