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Thread: Employment of Control Guards (porteros)

  1. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    21

    Question Power of arrest

    Raymundo

    I am confused now. I was under the impression that any private citizen can make a "Citizen's arrest" . I found a few articles earlier ; a global definition -

    " an arrest made not by a law officer but by any citizen who derives the authority to arrest from the fact of being a citizen. Under common law, a citizen may make an arrest for any felony actually committed, or for a breach of the peace committed in his or her presence."

    When I looked at another Spanish web site I also read

    "1. Arrest
    An individual can be arrested either before a criminal proceeding is initiated, during prosecution or once it is completed.

    1.1. How long may the arrest last?
    The detained must either be released or brought before a Judge within 24 hours from the arrest.

    If you are detained in custody you may be held in a police cell for up to 72 hours, then you must either be released or brought before a Judge.

    1.2. Who may arrest the offender? under which circumstances?
    A private citizen may arrest the offender:

    •Should the offender intend to commit an offence.
    •When the citizen sees suspicious activity, or knows that a crime is being committed.
    •Where search order is issued against the defendant for contempt.
    •Where the convicted is escaped from prison.
    It is the police's duty to arrest the person who is under any of the circumstances described above.

    The Spanish Constitution prohibits arbitrary arrest
    .

    1.3. Your rights as a detained person
    If you are detained, be aware that you must be informed in a language that you understand and in detail of the nature and cause of the accusation against you.

    Your rights as a detained person are guaranteed under Article 17 of the Spanish Constitution:

    •You have the right to remain silent and not plead guilty of the offence you are charged with.
    •You may appoint a private Lawyer and have that Lawyer during questioning. If you do not appoint a lawyer or cannot afford him, one will be assigned by the court.
    •An interpreter must assist you if you cannot understand or speak Spanish.
    •You have the right to be examined by the Court Doctor.
    •The Consulate office of your home country in Spain must be informed about your arrest.
    The judge may determine in specific cases no communication with the detained person, and thus he cannot inform his family about his arrest, the Lawyer will be then assigned ex officio.

    These are only general guidelines and not definitive statements of the law, all questions about the law's applications to individual cases shall be directed to a Spanish lawyer."



    Under section 1.2 above then surely anyone, including a portero who is also a private citizen, who witnesses a crime being or about to be committed can hold someone until the police arrive ? Obviously you have to be very careful and not make arbitrary arrests or breach the rights of the offender, otherwise the private citizen could be arrested I understand.

    Regards
    Patrick O'Connell

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Marbella
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    1,095

    Default

    Dear Patrick,

    You are quoting me the Habeas Corpus procedure and the Spanish Constitution. No wonder you are confused.

    A normal citizen cannot "arrest" in the legal sense another citizen, they are not a public authority or licenced for it as a private security guard would be.

    I believe my prior post was very clear.

    If your development wants to hire janitors or porteros that's fine. If you want them to patrol the grounds carrying handcuffs and a baton/gun arresting would-be tresspassers you are bound to be fined as they will lack the official licence your administrator has already pointed out.

    I'm under the impression you do not want to pay for security guards yet you want to hire someone else doing exactly the same role, that simply is not possible as per my prior posts.

    Regards,

  3. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    21

    Default Porteros

    Raymundo

    Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. We definitely do not want this Company to patrol the grounds carrying handcuffs and a baton/gun, arresting would-be tresspassers - that is the full Security Guard approach which is too expensive and inaffective in our area. We want a low key, effective deterrant approach as I said before.

    However you will appreciate that if we are going to hire this Company we want to protect ourselves from any possible legal problems. This is why we want to know what the Company employees are allowed to do if, for example, while walking around our urbanisation (as any other private citizen) they come across a burglar coming out of someone's house ? Phone the police - Yes .... anything else ? At present, on other urbanisations, I believe they would detain the person until the police arrive ( as a Citizen's arrest) so we want to know if this is legal or not. So if they did detain someone while awaiting the police are you saying this is illegal ? Would the urbanisation or just the Company be liable for any penalty ?

    Sorry to labour this point and thank you for being patient with me

    Regards
    Patrick O'Connell
    Last edited by patoc; 04-14-2010 at 08:07 PM.

  4. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    21

    Smile Employment of porteros - thanks

    Raymundo

    I want to thank you for all your advice and the time you have given me. It is very much appreciated.

    I have enough information now to report back to my Community so that we can make a decision.

    Thanks again
    Patrick O'Connell

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Marbella
    Posts
    1,095

    Default

    You are welcome.

  6. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1

    Default

    They are employed on urbanisations as Porters (Portero) or Caretakers...Thank you for your swift reply....
    http://pakistanhousing.pk/

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