Ocean View Properties

[L Robinson]

Gomez Villares & Alvarez

[Unregistered]

L.Robinson

we also used GV&A. When we refused to complete, telling GV&A we though it would be crazy to complete with all the snagging faults found as well as no LFO at the time, they wrote back and said ''how dare you call my advice crazy, I am your Lawyer!'' When OVP also advised us to complete faults and all we smelt a rat, changed lawyers and it all became clear sadly. It was OVP who advised us to use GV&A. Need I say more?

[Joey123]

well it's clearly a very tricky matter - sorry I'm stating the obvious!. can i suggest you contact Maria De Castro perhaps - www costaluzlawyers.es

You could also speak with Ignacio Morallis at Brethertons solicitors who very familiar with OVP

http://www.brethertons.co.uk/Home/Business-Services/Commercial-Litigation/Meet-the-Team/Ignacio-Morillas-Paredes-.aspx

OVP are a disgrace (being too kind).

If you had spanish lawyer Maria De Castro will be able to offer some good advise. As will Ignacio. Your parents did gets a property. Maybe your case needs to be reviewed by an independent spanish solicitor - one who seems reputable - like the above. Unfornately, it will cost, but it might be the only way they get any chance of redress but not a cheap of easy one. It sounds like that may not be an option if they are in financial trouble.

You might like to forward your concerns to Staffordshire Police if you feel OVP did anything wrong. See the Eye on Spain, Estepona Beach and Country Club thread

I was hoping your might have had a different story in which case it might have been an easier one to give you hope on.

Best of luck to you and your parents!

[Mike]

If you had spanish lawyer Maria De Castro will be able to offer some good advise.

Sure, just the same advise this bloke got from her:

http://www.marbella-lawyers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83

I wouldn't get near her with a ten-foot pole.

[Unregistered]

Ok, I have never had any personal experience of MDC, but have read lots of positive posts hence mentioning her. I think a balanced view is required. How about this forum - can belgal help? It would seem a spanish lawyer is needed as it is spanish law. maybe the regularatory body for overseeing spanish solicitors should be consulted. Still try Ignacio, he seems reputable and willing to help with some advice. he would know who to ask in spain to review the case/complain to. All lawyers cost a fortune. Was the solicitor acting for the seller or the purchaser?

[Unregistered]

L. Robinson

well I've found MDC very helpful and gives alot of advice free. I would very suprised if she wasn't genuine?

I changed from GV&A to Lawbird, and given the fact they have to work in the constraints of a very slow and questionable justice system, I feel they have done what they can to get justice for me, as we won our case. Will I ever get anything back?, that's another story!!

[Unregistered]

I have lost a lot of money through ocean view, I blame CT JKS and their accountant.
I have been investigating the whole thing up there, its amazing what you can find out.
1. Chartered accountant that ran there accounts, got paid on a fee basis for many years.
2. Surely he has a duty of care under the ICA rules, he tried to get KMPG to sign off the accounts this failed
3. He still represents for CT and JKS
4. The accountant (Groucott Moor) also have a financial services business, do the FSA no about his dealings with ocean view
5. He also has property in spain, who bought him that I wonder.
6. He is also a partner in an Public accountants/lawyers/tax consultants based in Madrid/Marbella/Birmingham, these people contacted me about my property in Spain, they got my name from ocean view, how and why still investigating this avenue.
He new what was going on and did nothing, As an independent he has a duty of care be a chartered accountant.
Need to understand if this getting investigated, because practice like this cannot continue by a chartered accountant.

[L. Robinson]

So is it just worth my parents accepting that this money is lost?

And where do they stand legally as they are being chased for the arrears. Please see my previous poionst - a london solicitor firm have threatened action to pursue them in the UK.

[Unregistered]

What about the accountants PI insurance (professional indemnity), can we go for that through neligence as a chartered account working for OVP, can grant thornton advise please or someone else?

[Joey123]

Dear L Robinson - You or your parents need to contact Citizans Advice or an equivalent or get a solicitor asap. Being in the UK will not enable them to avoid this situation, I don't believe. Do not seek advice hear as nothing will get done and no doubt you need to act fast to defend the claim, if possible.

Re Pi insurance re the accountant - why? did he advise you on the purchase? Probably not & he would not be allowed to! You need to look the purchase process and see if there are any angles there to make any claim at all.

If you have concerns re misrepresenations etc, report them to Staff Police and Grant Thornton & an independent solicitor.

[unregistered]

Dear L Robinson

I agree with your last post & suggest you contact Citizens Advice. I was myself a Benatalaya buyer & suffered in a similar way. I raised money against my UK property to purchase Spanish property. I now have a doubled UK mortgage & also a Spanish mortgage.
When I contacted OV re unpaid rent they sent me monies when they could & also this document. JKS TO PROVIDE. They explained that Ricardo Miranda was involved in the sourcing of Benatalaya stock, which OV then sold. They would then split the commission between them. Ricardo Miranda & the company GCP would sort out the rental income based on 5% annual return over 3 years. When I pressurised OV to prove this they provided these documents. It doesn’t help me financially but I have filled in Creditor forms as an OV creditor as they should still owe me rental monies. My view is that if GCP had written this letter to OV then there should be a Grant Thornton claim against GCP for our benefit.

I am in contact with an ex OV employee who is promising further information. Once I have it I will make it available.

[ronaldmcd]

Dear L Robinson

I agree with your last post & suggest you contact Citizens Advice. I was myself a Benatalaya buyer & suffered in a similar way. I raised money against my UK property to purchase Spanish property. I now have a doubled UK mortgage & also a Spanish mortgage.
When I contacted OV re unpaid rent they sent me monies when they could & also the document linked below They explained that Ricardo Miranda was involved in the sourcing of Benatalaya stock, which OV then sold. They would then split the commission between them. Ricardo Miranda & the company GCP would sort out the rental income based on 5% annual return over 3 years. When I pressurised OV to prove this they provided these documents. It doesn’t help me financially but I have filled in Creditor forms as an OV creditor as they should still owe me rental monies. My view is that if GCP had written this letter to OV then there should be a Grant Thornton claim against GCP for our benefit.

I am in contact with an ex OV employee who is promising further information. Once I have it I will make it available.

[ronaldmcd]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/27252242

[Unregistered]

I know where john issss!!!!!!

Sell to highest bidder.....

[Unregistered]

I know where john issss!!!!!!

Sell to highest bidder.....


i have also got his reg plate of his car and were he is 5 days a week :D

[Unregistered]

Does any one want to know were john is? This is my last offer!!!

[Unregistered]

Can you post the GCP doc on here?

[Unregistered]

Are you talking about John Kenyon smith?

[Unregistered]

If you have the details for Jon Kenyon Smith, please post it. We already have the details for the main crook though and he was the one in control of the scam.

[Unregistered]

Since the details of one of Colin Thomas's rental properties/website was highlighted, they have shut down their website. Should you still need to contact them the property address was -

Arden House, Carding Mill Valley, Church Stretton, Shropshire SY6 6JH.

Land reg will give more details should you need them.

Has Colin Thomas been kind enough yet to tell anybody where our money has been hidden?
Once he has assisted us in giving back whats ours maybe he could relax and enjoy life rather than having lots of people tracking everything he does.

[Unregistered]

Since the details of one of Colin Thomas's rental properties/website was highlighted, they have shut down their website. Should you still need to contact them the property address was -

Arden House, Carding Mill Valley, Church Stretton, Shropshire SY6 6JH.

Land reg will give more details should you need them.

Has Colin Thomas been kind enough yet to tell anybody where our money has been hidden?
Once he has assisted us in giving back whats ours maybe he could relax and enjoy life rather than having lots of people tracking everything he does.

now look what's it's listed under:-

http://www.nursinghomevacancies.com/result.aspx?lstCounty=Shropshire

[ifv]

Interesting ruling against Manilva Costa SA, developer of Manilva Gardens.

http://www.lawbird.com/wordpress/manilva-costa-manilva-gardens/

[Unregistered]

Hello, I paid a deposit for Tafedna Bay through OVP. The money found its way to Unico. I received a new contract but didn't sign it as i no longer wanted anything to do with it and wanted my money back. The original contract was reproduced without Unicos permission. However unico said the original contract is still legally binding. Is anyone else in a similar position? As I would like to get my money back. Also how are people finding Ignacio Morillas-Paredes of Brethertons? I sent them some paperwork to look at it was sent recorded delivery and has been lost after being signed for!

[Unregistered]

Hi. Unico is also owned by Ricardo Miranda. He controls all 3 of the scams, Tafedna Bay, Punta Perla and Estepona Beach and Country Club.
His hands are very dirty at the moment!

[Unregistered]

They also lost my entire file. Including alll the original paperwork. worrrying.

[Unregistered]

Hi. Unico is also owned by Ricardo Miranda. He controls all 3 of the scams, Tafedna Bay, Punta Perla and Estepona Beach and Country Club.
His hands are very dirty at the moment!

can anybody tell me why ricarda is not in jail, so many lives destroyed and he still walks the earth

[Joey123]

I understand that an update will be posted in the near future on the case (this week ish). No details known by me or will be given by GT to individuals.

[Unregistered]

Do those of you who track CT know if he's actually in Staffordshire right now? I'm trying to make sure someone of the same name in another country is not the same man.

[Unregistered]

many investors are trying to go that route, just like at ovp nothing has come of it, the money is hidden i am sure of that. type in singing pig forum, punta perla 5 years of posts 400 investors scammed and ricarda lives the perfect life. many lifes and dreams destroyed and interpol and fbi in the states do nothing. type in punta perla scams and read about the rich ricarda maranda

[ronaldmcd]

To all of us affected by the ocean view /ricardo miranda scam my personal thoughts of vengance due to my hardship of no rent being paid to me on my benatalya property fall into insignificance to all those affected on gardens of manilva and estepona beach but my thoughts have now changed .On benetalya from the document given to me and posted earlier it is ricardo mirandas company gcp that guaranteed the rent but did not pay!and for all those affected on gardens of manilva the successful court action by the administrator of this site is truly excellent news for over 500 people on that development.As far as estepona beach is concerned i hope with all the other creditors the report from gt will cover it but from what i have seen it is very clear ricardo miranda is behind the whole scam benatalya no rent estepona no build no land morocco tafedna bay no build no land punta perla massive accusations of fraud and that posting i saw of 17 failed companys does not make good reading HE IS CLEARLY A VERY CLEVER CON MAN i do not understand why all estepona clients after all this time cannot organise yourselves into 1 group work with say the administrator of this site and take action against ricardo miranda because he has been clearly at it.

[Lawbird Lawyer]

To all of us affected by the ocean view /ricardo miranda scam my personal thoughts of vengance due to my hardship of no rent being paid to me on my benatalya property fall into insignificance to all those affected on gardens of manilva and estepona beach but my thoughts have now changed .On benetalya from the document given to me and posted earlier it is ricardo mirandas company gcp that guaranteed the rent but did not pay!and for all those affected on gardens of manilva the successful court action by the administrator of this site is truly excellent news for over 500 people on that development.As far as estepona beach is concerned i hope with all the other creditors the report from gt will cover it but from what i have seen it is very clear ricardo miranda is behind the whole scam benatalya no rent estepona no build no land morocco tafedna bay no build no land punta perla massive accusations of fraud and that posting i saw of 17 failed companys does not make good reading HE IS CLEARLY A VERY CLEVER CON MAN i do not understand why all estepona clients after all this time cannot organise yourselves into 1 group work with say the administrator of this site and take action against ricardo miranda because he has been clearly at it.

Dear Sir,

Further to your post we feel it is neccessary to clarify the following points regarding buyers who purchased off-plan in Spain through OVP:


1. Regarding development Gardens of Manilva whose developer is Manilva Costa, S.A. and was marketed and sold exclusively through Ocean View Properties (OVP) our lawfirm has recently won a Group Action against this Spanish developer at Estepona's law courts.

This ruling is very important because it has now opened the door to other off-plan buyers who previoulsy were unable to litigate successfully for technical reasons which details I won't get into.

Suffice is to say that this new ruling has now opened the door to all those buyers who paid OVP to buy an off-plan property in Manilva Gardens.

All those interested should contact us (http://www.lawbird.com/services/contact) for more details on the case.

Details on the Group Action can be found in the link below with a scanned copy of the ruling available, both in Spanish and in English, in PDF format:

Successful Group Action vs. Manilva Costa, S.A. (http://www.lawbird.com/wordpress/manilva-costa-manilva-gardens/)
4th March 2010

Development: Jardines de Manilva/ Gardens of Manilva

Lawbird lawyers have won a Group Action Law suit in a First ruling against developer Manilva Costa, S.A. on the 25th February 2010 acting on behalf of a group of British clients, who had purchased off-plan property from Manilva Costa, S.A. in well-known development Jardines de Manilva (Manilva Gardens), located in the municipality of Manilva. They all purchased off-plan units through British Real Estate Agency Ocean View Properties (OVP) (http://belegal.com/blog-by-antonio-flores/manilva-costa-uncovered-manilva-gardens/) which has now been legally wounded up in the UK. The judge dismissed claims from Manilva Costa alleging it was only OVP which had received the funds and that they had at no time received any funds from our clients nor were they a party to the Private Purchase Contract (PPC) (!) as they had at no time signed any of the purchase contracts.

The developer’s claims were overturned one by one in view of the substantial evidence collated by our legal team whereby the commercial relationship and the roles assigned to each were irrefutably established as well as Manilva Costa’s acknowledgement of having received our client’s stage payments. The judge concluded all the PPC were valid and binding despite not being signed or even acknowledged by the Spanish developer.

The judge went on to rule the Spanish developer had breached the Private Purchase Contract on four different accounts:

1. Late delivery in handing over the property.
2. Lack in attaining the mandatory Licence of First Occupation (http://www.marbella-lawyers.com/articles/showArticle/lfo-licence-of-first-occupation) (LFO) which is required to occupy and live in a dwelling.
3. Lack of promised communal facilities which enhanced the resort’s value (i.e. Social Club) as promised in the developer’s glossy brochures.
4. Non-performance of promised features included within the Private Purchase Contract which resulted in a significant decrease of value of the new build properties (i.e. the built size of units was considerably less, reduced number of bathrooms etc).

Estepona’s lower court has now sentenced the developer Manilva Costa, S.A. to:

1. Refund our clients their deposits in full amounting to over 400,000€
2. Pay the legal interests accrued on the said amounts.
3. Award the legal fees to our clients, meaning the developer will pay for them.

Documents

•Original Manilva Costa Ruling in Spanish (http://www.lawbird.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/lawbird-manilva-costa-ruling-original-spanish-anon.pdf) (PDF 1,500 kb)
•Partial Translation of the Manilva Costa Ruling (http://www.lawbird.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/lawbird-manilva-costa-ruling-partial-translation-english.pdf) (PDF 166 Kb)



2. Regarding Estepona Beach and Country Club (EBCC) we are considering taking Criminal action against the developer. After all these years nothing has been built as the Building Licence was never attained. No stage payments have been refunded.

All those interested in pursuing legal action against Sungolf Desarollo Inmobiliario, S.A. and the man behind it, Mr Ricardo Miranda Miret, please contact us.

E-mail: info@lawbird.com

Phone number: +34 952 86 18 90

Yours faithfully,

[Joey123]

This is good information. Thank-you. Over time more information is being gathered to lead you down a path other than speculation. This opens the door for action against the developer potentially. We have all known for sometime the developments he has been associated with have been problamatic, shall we say. Without signed contracts it seemed that our recourse was against OVP or if possibly against solicitors in some circumstances.

We do now potentially have a new avenue to look at and will do so thank-you again.

I would hope we can open up a line of communcition soon. Perpaps vie EOS PM facility?

Regards
Joey123

[Lawbird Lawyer]

Hi Joey,

You are welcome.

We are compiling a legal dossier on the development and on Ricardo Miranda Miret so that people can evaluate the significance of the evidence gathered and choose to join the group action our firm is preparing. We have already decided that a criminal action seems to be the best option on the basis of the information we have but wish to share it with anyone caught out in this scam so that they can form their own opinions.

We don’t think EOS is the right platform to discuss legal action, in particular one of a criminal nature and therefore we are preparing a similar facility on our site.

Regards,

[Joey123]

Dear Lawbird

Agree re EOS. I did not realise you had made the last post. I did not look closely enough. I am part of an legal group in the UK, re EBCC. There are 11 of us. I am aware of many more.

I would be most interested in any line of action against the developer re EBCC on a group basis. I look forward to more details.

Do you need any information re EBCC/OVP etc? Can I help?

Joey123

[Unregistered]

well done lawbird yes joey 123 gather as many clients as you can there are over 300 people that should be taking action against ricardo miranda on estepona beach and country club but what are grant thornton doing to help surely they organise an action group they should have at least all the details of the clients and a copy of the signed contracts by the clients how do i join i know somebody in the spanish press that wants to do a story on ricardo miranda and his shady dealings especially on punta perla where with all the accusations about sales on land he does not own and the fact that he is accused of misleading all on estepona beach between 2005 and 2008

[Unregistered]

Hi

i invested with OVP back in 2005...deposits were moved from property to property then eventually to tafedna bay. Agent advises that he is in the process of refund of deposit from the developer. Can somebody advise me as to what i should?

[Joey123]

did you use a solicitor of all of this and if so were they recommended by ovp? What was there name?

[Unregistered]

Hi

i invested with OVP back in 2005...deposits were moved from property to property then eventually to tafedna bay. Agent advises that he is in the process of refund of deposit from the developer. Can somebody advise me as to what i should?

you will never see a penny, only hope jail time for ricarda, he is still selling land at punta perla through agents there who are involved. scam has been going on for years and he lives like a king, can someone take him down?

[Joey123]

name the agents with contract details

[Unregistered]

type in punta perla some sites closed, others still up and running selling land as they continue to promote development for hugh commisions. if you go to D.R. punta perla aka ricarda will have realtors show you land try to sell you this scam, hoping you are not aware of it. check out singing pig forum some realtors still pushing this bull. the con continues and ricarda and his sister eve can not be stopped, he is one of the best destroying many lifes, hopes and dreams. there is no justice and life is not fair, teach your children well, trust no one

[Unregistered]

Lawbird, its great to read your recent postings. Which gives so many people an element of hope.
Would it not be possible for you to discuss with Samantha Lock at Grant Thornton and work with her in order to get all investors together?
It makes so much more sense, as they are currently dealing with so many claims from Estepona investors.
I feel there are many who would be very interested in joining your group, but there will also be many who do not use this site or even the internet! They could be contacted through Grant Thornton.
I look forward to hearing more from you.
John and Trina.

[Unregistered]

Brilliant work by the lawyer behind this court action i wonder if they can look at punta perla because from what i am reliably told he has sold property to clients in the marina and beach front star island etc through similar agents and he does not own that land either but merely has an option which is fraud .In relation lets not get carried away with what grant thorntons motivation is like all insolvency practioner it is fees and they have not even bothered to put a website up to inform us .Are we creditors or not? and is their conflict? because as they have already stated they are representing the woodhall estate in action against ricardo miranda and his companys.I am sure we can do a better job ourselves by utilising good people like joey 123 and others on the eye on spain web site to gather enough people to join this action because at least we know with the lawyers on this web site what are motivations are the return of our moneys without big fat fees being taken by a liquidator

[Unregistered]

I would like to add a word or two of caution. Yes a judgement has been won, but to me a judgement in your favour is only a very expensive piece of paper until you have the money back in your bank account where it belongs. It would be very misleading of any legal representative to lead you to believe a judgement in your favour means a refund in your pocket.

I would be interested to hear what Lawbird are doing with this judgement. Do any of their clients have their money back yet? If not it would be interesting to find out how Lawbird are going to recover it.

[Unregistered]

Hi there, Court rulings have to be executed if you want your money, you are absolutely right, but at least some people now have a Court ruling against a company that is alive and kicking, not against a liquidated company, dont you think? It is a way forward, perhaps expensive, but certainly better than staying home and writing on this forum for years!

[Unregistered]

Hmmm, I'm not so sure. I am one of those who has a judgement in their favour, so I'm well placed to comment. A judgement means nothing if you don't get your money back - in that case its not a way forward, its throwing good money after bad. Time will tell how this pans out.

[Unregistered]

Has anyone seen the latest financial accounts for Manilva? What do they say about it?

[Unregistered]

just like bernie maddof in the states 50 billion scamed, no one has or will see a penny, hes in jail at least, ricarda walks free all the judgements are worthless when money is hidden out of the county, the company may be up and running, see how much money can be found, will be next to nothing. only hope is that he goes to jail, but it appears that will never happen, f.b.i., interpol, and american greed contacted by many people who lost everything at punta perla and nothing has been done, can anyone take him down? where is the justice?

[Lawbird Lawyer]

I would like to add a word or two of caution. Yes a judgement has been won, but to me a judgement in your favour is only a very expensive piece of paper until you have the money back in your bank account where it belongs. It would be very misleading of any legal representative to lead you to believe a judgement in your favour means a refund in your pocket.

I would be interested to hear what Lawbird are doing with this judgement. Do any of their clients have their money back yet? If not it would be interesting to find out how Lawbird are going to recover it.

Dear Sir or Madam,

Thank you for your input. I feel your post warrants we clarify some of the issues you raise.

Obtaining a favourable ruling is only the first step in the recovery of funds, granted. I honestly believe no one has been mislead by us as a result of our last post as you seemingly imply.

The legal fees we charge in litigation are split into both a retainer fee and a contingent fee dependant on the result (10% on all amounts recovered).

No result, no contingent fee.

Our interests are lined-up with our clients to recover as much money as possible on their behalf. Almost everytime we have recovered funds from developers it has been through litigation. At times developer's representatives waited until the same day of the hearing to reach an out-of-court-settlement and at others we've had to fight until the second ruling. Regardless, in almost all cases a law suit had to be filed nonetheless.

Our experience and litigation track record (http://www.lawbird.com/wordpress/) show that If you do not adopt a proactive attitude in recovering your funds, no matter how long it takes, you simply don't recover any money at all.

Everytime we have recovered money (not just winning law suits) from various developers it has entailed necessarily litigation.

We will recover our client's money as we have always done.- litigating. This legal procedure has not come to and end yet and will be ongoing. This is only the first step in the right direction.

We would be most interested to hear from you how do you suggest we should recover our client's moneys if it's not through litigation. We welcome any suggestions.

The case against Manilva Costa, S.A. has proved most difficult to win as the odds were stacked heavily against us and our clients knew it. Which is why our law firm has turned down dozens of clients to litigate at Gardens of Manilva over the last two years prior to this ruling because we felt their chances were not strong enough (http://belegal.com/blog-by-antonio-flores/you-have-a-strong-case-not-spanish-property-developers/).

It is a policy of this law firm not to engage in reckless and imprudent litigation (http://belegal.com/blog-by-antonio-flores/reckless-and-imprudent-litigation-in-spain/) as it's clear from all our legal articles, (http://www.marbella-lawyers.com/articles/showArticle/10-reasons-case-against-spanish-developer-may-be-thrown-out) posts and most importantly our acts.

As written above, we were only able to litigate on behalf of a reduced group of plaintiffs due to a major blunder of the developer which allowed them the opportunity to litigate. Blunder which which was subsequently amended and never repeated again barring the opportunity of others to litigate, that is until this new ruling.

This successful Group Action has now left the door ajar for all those off-plan buyers at Gardens of Manilva which we have been turning down for litigation since 2008.

The way OVP and Manilva Costa had concocted the whole conveyance procedure made it nigh impossible to litigate in Spain successfully for the retrieval of client deposits as payments had all been made in the UK over to OVP and none of the Private Purchase Contracts had been signed by the developer (!). Moreover, the Spanish developer at all times denied having any legal relationship with the off-plan buyers as well as having received any funds from them as can be surmissed from the judge's ruling itself which we've posted publicly for all to read.

Regarding EBCC we are in the process of studying the matter and the appropriate legal action to be taken. More on EBCC:

Estepona Beach and Country Club and Operacion Malaya: A Necessary Connection? (http://belegal.com/blog-by-antonio-flores/estepona-beach-and-country-club-and-operacion-malaya/) - 22nd March 2010

Yours sincerely,

[Unregistered]

Thank you for responding, however I wasn't implying that you in particular were misleading anybody. I can just see that all this excitement (not necessarily generated by yourselves I might add) about having a favourable judgement may lead people to believe they have a good chance of having their money refunded.

Manilva Costa have appealed against all the judgements against them so far - this leaves purchasers back in another 12 month (or longer?) queue for the appeal court, more legal costs, and what then? I'm not sure Manilva Costa even have the means to pay back one or two people, never mind the hoardes who are litigating.

Sorry to put a dampner on things but I'm just being realistic - I'd love nothing more than to be proved wrong though!

[Unregistered]

This is great news for everyone but as the above poster said, does Manilva have enough money to pay off all the potential claims? Has it paid off the initial claims yet? Lawbird must have copies of the latest company accounts otherwise it wouldn't have gone to court unless it had money

What's the position?

[Unregistered]

Lawbird, thank you for all you are currently doing with your EBCC investigations.

How do we register our interests with you? I have emailed you.

We purchased on the EBCC site and are now in a difficult financial state, so would appreciate any info you can give to us.

Hope to hear more soon.

[Unregistered]

Lawbird, please can you confirm if you have contacted Grant Thornton to discuss??

If so what have been their thoughts on going after Ricardo Miranda?

[Unregistered]

I think the work that has been done is great and as a buyer on gardens of maniva and estepona if i was honest the feeling of complete and utter dispair and feeling of total revoltion at the b**st**ds at ocean view is indescribable but with a calmer hat on if both developments were built and the credit crunch had not happened and lets say they were worth more would i want to complete and the answer is yes but would i be able to afford them and that is no so the opportunity to get a settlement on both would be great and on gardens of manilva that hopefully will be the property i was buying at a reduced rate because the developer will not have the money and now i have followed the postings with reference to ricardo miranda and he has obviously sent the money to punta perla my friend mentioned a worldwide maraver injuntion i am certainly feeling a lot more positive and no i am not stupid enough to think i will get all my cash back but at the moment i have nothing

[Unregistered]

at punta perla we have lost everything, and are law firm has told us, so much money has been stolen, from so many, however ricarda is never going to hand it over, it is gone for ever. in the states so many have been scammed by the likes of allan stafford, madof and so many others no money ever given back to the investors. the courts are the only place to go, but do not live in a dream that any money will be recovered. what really needs to be done to ricarda would be called a crime, and i would never ask or be involved in anything of the sort. perhaps someday there will be justice ?

[Unregistered]

any news on manilva paying people yet?

[Grant Thornton]

Ocean View Properties International Limited - In Liquidation ("OVPI")
FROM THE JOINT LIQUIDATORS

We have been asked by a number of interested parties to provide further information on OVPI's dealings with Sungolf Desarrollo Inmobilario SA ("Sungolf") relating to the Estepona Beach and Country Club development ("Development").
1. Members of OVPI's management team, namely Colin Thomas, David Stewart, Robert Parkes and Jonathon Kenyon-Smith, claim that:
1.1 approximately €13 million was paid from OVPI to Sungolf in respect of the Development;
1.2 when some purchasers of properties in the Development relocated to another or other projects, Ricardo Miranda, Sungolf's owner, paid approximately €3.4million to the new developer(s);
1.3 significant monies were and remain owed by Sungolf to OVPI;
1.4 whilst OVPI latterly received approximately €5 million from Ricardo Miranda, these were loans from him to OVPI to assist with its cash flow due to the difficulties caused by the delays to the Development;
1.5 In summary, they do not accept that all of the monies paid to Sungolf have been refunded or offset against other developments; and
1.6 Jonathon Kenyon-Smith's solicitors state that they are in possession of further documents to support these contentions. Some documentation has been provided and we are in correspondence with the solicitors to obtain further documents.

2. Sungolf's UK solicitors have claimed that:

2.1 Sungolf agreed to sell the whole of the Development to OVPI as a bulk sale;
2.2 OVPI was not Sungolf's agent, but a principal in the transaction, free to re-sell individual units in its own discretion;
2.3 The sale price was €71,720,000 plus VAT, subsequently adjusted upwards by €5million when OVPI also agreed to purchase a sport club to be constructed by Sungolf on the site;
2.4 The agreement between Sungolf and OVPI was never documented;
2.5 Eventually the project in relation to the Development was cancelled by mutual agreement;
2.6 Although OVPI sent Sungolf a number of contracts which showed Sungolf to be contracting with individual investors, Sungolf refused to sign these as they did not reflect Sungolf's agreement with OVPI;
2.7 Sungolf received just over €12 million from OVPI's Spanish subsidiaries' Spanish bank accounts ("Spanish Accounts") which has been repaid in the following ways;
2.8 Sungolf paid some €2.5 million to the Gardens of Manilva (another OVPI project) developer, Manilva Costa, on behalf of OVPI;
2.9 Sungolf paid just over €4.1 million to Sean Woodhall, again on behalf of OVPI;
2.10 Sungolf paid the balance, being just over €5.3 million, to OVPI;
2.11 Resulting in all monies received by Sungolf having been repaid to (or paid elsewhere on behalf of) OVPI;
2.12 Sungolf believes that only a modest proportion of the funds actually received by OVPI from purchasers in the Development were ever paid through to Sungolf.

3. A summary of our current understanding of the position, is as follows:

3.1 OVPI does not appear to have made any direct payments to Sungolf, rather, all payments destined for Sungolf were routed through the Spanish Accounts;
3.2 To date we have identified payments of over £27 million from OVPI going to the Spanish Accounts, but we have been advised that these funds were for a number of different developers, not just Sungolf;
3.3 We have not seen the bank statements for the Spanish Accounts, and so cannot reconcile receipts to monies sent from the UK, and do not know what monies were paid to whom from these accounts;
3.4 We can see funds (as per paragraphs 1.4 and 2.10 above) of just over €5.3 million being received into OVPI's UK bank accounts, but have received contrary advices as to what these credits related to;
3.5 We have asked Sungolf's UK solicitors to provide evidence that OVPI authorised the payments to the various other parties, but at the time of preparing this statement, no such documents had been provided to the liquidators;
3.6 We have not been provided with any signed contracts either:
3.6.1 between Sungolf and individual investors, or
3.6.2 between Sungolf and OVPI, or
3.6.3 between OVPI and individual investors.
3.7 Should any investor have a copy or know where a copy can be found of any signed contracts, please provide us with a copy, as this will assist the liquidators' investigations;
3.8 We have been provided with a document, purportedly signed by Colin Thomas on behalf of OVPI, dated 7 January 2009, which states that no monies are due from Sungolf to OVPI;
3.9 However, on the subsequent production of the document detailed above to Jonathon Kenyon-Smith, he stated that:
3.9.1 this document misrepresented the position between OVPI and Sungolf and was "false",
3.9.2 Colin Thomas's signature on the document was a forgery, and
3.9.3 the letter "was written to support Ricardo Miranda in a situation… because he was trying to raise finance for Punta Perla.."

4. There are some clear discrepancies between the various parties' positions on the matter.

5. The Liquidators will continue to investigate these, and will report further to investors as and when further information is available.

Issued for and on behalf of Ocean View Properties International Limited

Nick Wood and Ian Richardson
Joint Liquidators

[Unregistered]

blah blah blah no money, all a waste fo time someone please take ricarda down

[Joey123]

why Ricardo? - who took £27m for deposits on the Estepona Beach and Country Club in trust of it being held pending a build licence being granted. What Ricardo did or did not do does not interest me. The blame lies squarely on the owner/director/quasi directors of OVP.
They lived the high life on money that was not theirs. The fact they could of earned good money from this was not relevant. Until the properties were delivered to spec. on time, the money was not earnt and if spent it was stolen. Bentleys, Seven Series BMW.s Millionairre pads and lifestyles - but whose money was it being spent?

They stole the money for their own greed. This needs to come back and haunt them big time. They should be grovelling and selling everything they have to put towards refunding us. The money was to be held in a secure account. It was not. It makes me very angry.

I find it hard to see what we cannot get justice. I am wondering if we need to deal with this matter privately. Let's see if GT will agree to a public meeting with the SFO etc there.

Joey123

[Unregistered]

UNBELIEVABLE -

Joey 123 your journey for revenge is admirable but blind because you have acheived no financial gain at all .

Being a client on both gardens of manilva and estepona beach I am shocked at Grant Thornton .They have informed us of nothing we did not already know.They promised us they would keep us informed via their website .They could not even be bothered to invest in doing this.Instead they utilise unregulated websites to inform us of their past 6 months work.Being nitpicky how do we even know that this is an official letter.It is unsigned and not on a letterhead.If it is from GT they could not even be bothered to send a copy of their findings to us the creditors by post.Perhaps the cost of the postage stamps is too much!I do not even know if I am classed as a creditor or not on either of these developments.They have not even bothered to clarrify that in their posting.

I am truly staggered by the unprofessional dealings with what is the most financially important matter in my life.It has changed my family situation for ever.Ian Richardson and Nick Wood I am truly disgusted in the pair of you.If you cannot be bothered to do the job properly you should resign and we the creditors should get representation from a professional body that is not purely motivated by its greed for fees.

Personally I am utilising the services of Marbella Lawyers who have done billiant things with their successful court action against the gardens of manilva developer and I am hoping that they will be able to turn that success into securing the development in a habitable state.With reference to estepona beach putting that posting up that Ocean View blame Ricardo Miranda and Ricardo Miranda blames Ocean View is something that has been public information for 2 years.I believe the posting by Marbella Lawyers linking Ricardo Miranda to the Malaya corruption gives us the best hope for securing return of my monies whether it be in property or cash.It would be more than I have at the moment.

Grant thornton pull your finger out and clarrify whether we are creditors or not .the way you have handled this liquidation so far is truly appalling and you have confirmed to me by your actions you have little or no interest in helping us.You are quite clearly only interested in your fees.How much are your fees to date?

It is clear to me that if we have a united front on both gardens of manilva and estepona beach we will resolve the issue for ourselves.

[Unregistered]

GRANT THORNTON ; Thanks for the update but please tell us what you are doing about this crime. It's now very obvious that a massive fraud has been committed, both parties are being dishonest so what reports have you filed with the police??????

If any of my property was stolen I would expect the police to investigate and return what is mine and this situation is no different!

Ricardo Miranda is a large scale fraudster, not one of his developments have come to fruition.
Does that not make alarm bells ring in your head??

[Unregistered]

I am one of the lucky few from gardens of Manilva who has won a judgement and, more importantly has been refunded - so it is possible. I have posted more detail on Eye on Spain for those who are interested.

Hel

[Unregistered]

I am one of the lucky few from gardens of Manilva who has won a judgement and, more importantly has been refunded - so it is possible. I have posted more detail on Eye on Spain for those who are interested.

Hel
Did you use a uk law firm ? if so which one ! I have looked at eyes on spain and cannot find your comments - BB

[Unregistered]

To all interested:
As there has been a lot of talk and interest in what “Domincan Watchdog� has to say about life in the Dominican Republic, I think it is also important for us to all know who “Dominican Watchdog-Jan Vistisen� is in real life. Although I am providing a translation of the article in Spanish, you may also read for yourselves the link provided directly to the webpage of the National police. Do we really trust the words of a man who has been accused of fraud against a public organism? Are these the words we need to be listening to or should we look for a neutral voice. The Danish government and INTERPOL have him in their sights and the Dominican government is not too far behind in that they have also discredited most of what he has to say, as well as many of the larger corporations and others in the country that claim all he is looking for are payments to maintain their names off his webpage.

Link: http://www.policianacional.gov.do/system/noticias.php?id_prod=441

National Police locate two foreigners; one wanted for felony and the other by family members
PN localiza dos extranjeros, uno buscado por delitos y otro por sus familiares
Head quarters of the National Police in conjunction with INTERPOL, informed today that they located a Spanish national looked for by his family and deported another to Denmark who was wanted for having committed fraud against the Public and Commercial Administration of the country.
La Jefatura de la PolicÃ*a Nacional en conjunto con la PolicÃ*a Internacional (INTERPOL), informó hoy que localizó a un nacional español que era buscado por sus familiares y deportó a otro de Dinamarca, quien era buscado por cometer fraude contra la Administración Pública y Comercial de su paÃ*s.
La institución informó que el ciudadano español, Germán Liñan Medina, se encontraba desaparecido y sus familiares lo habÃ*an declarado perdido porque temÃ*an por su vida.
La institución al proceder con la investigación determinó que el ciudadano español se encontraba conviviendo con Jissette Estefany RamÃ*rez Rijo, una dominicana de 22 años de edad, quienes residen en el municipio de Hato Mayor del Rey.
Al ser interrogado sobre la alegada desaparición manifestó que su familiares lo declararon como desaparecido, porque él no tenÃ*a interés en que supieran donde estaba, por lo que se procedió a que contactara a sus parientes por llamada telefónica y asÃ* esclarecer el hecho de la supuesta desaparición.
As for the deported to Denmark, Jan Vistisen, who was detained at Gustavo MejÃ*a Ricard, of the Piantini sector, was sent to his country upon being wanted for by the fraud commission against the public and/or commercial administration.
En tanto que el deportado a Dinamarca, Jan Vistisen, quien fuera detenido en la Gustavo MejÃ*a Ricard, del sector Piantini, fue enviado hacia su paÃ*s de origen por ser requerido por la comisión de fraude contra la Administración Pública y/o Comercial.
The deportation was carried out in coordination with the Falsification Deparment, General Direction for Migration and the Airline that transported the detained.
La deportación se realizó en coordinación con el Departamento de Falsificación, la Dirección General de Migración y la lÃ*nea aérea que trasportó al capturado.

[Unregistered]

Please can anyone let me know how to contact Lawbird? I have emailed them on here but not received any response?

[Unregistered]

LAWBIRD
Me too. E-mailed them 3 weeks ago but no reply. Dont know about everyone else but this is ruining my life. If our justice system (and i use that term loosely) cant do anything for us what is the point. GT at £180 per hour will no doubt get paid but my money which was stolen will not be returned. Get your own justice folks. They are a shower of dirty stinking lying thieving b......s.

[Lawbird Lawyer]

Our deepest apologies for the belated replies.

We've been having some IT issues lately.

Blame it on the spring cleaning!

Everyone should have been replied to already, if not please let us know.

Yours sincerely,
Raymundo LarraÃ*n Nesbitt

[Unregistered]

Hi guys

Like many people on this forum I had handed over the best part of £70K to OVP for a property in Spain, I was very lucky and managed to get a full refund. I obtained this by having a good chat with the people involved and thankfully they returned my money. The legal road is far too exspensive and more often than not draws a blank. The person responsible is common knowledge as is his address, I would encourage people to go and see him.

[Joey123]

when was this?

[Unregistered]

Singingpig today by steve2010

What a relief to know we are being "protected" by a confirmed criminal. If he thinks he is the only one capable of doing research, look at what I came across dominicanwatchdog owner: http://interpol.net16.net/jan_vistisen/ . Hunted delinquent is all I see here and a great mug shot.
See for yourselves.

[Unregistered]

Steve (or should I call you Raymond due to connectivity report from 16net),

This will be my final answer to this matter. and your link has been closed!!!

I have two kids in the DR. I have no interest if continuing this conversation with you. My country is not a Republic but a Kingdom, hence I could not have been sent to my home country for fraud against the Republic. There are many things you don't know. However I'm sure that if I was in anyway lying you would hear some official comments or my website would have been closed by now. This is an issue between me and the Dominican Government and I'm quite sure they too don't like to discuss the matter openly.

Moreover 98% of all articles on Dominican Watchdog is linked directly to their sources around the world. I do NOT write them. At most I try to explain what's going on and how and who is connected. Therefore discrediting me makes no sense unless your readers also left school too early to click on the source link.

Have you read all 300+ articles on my Watchdog? Is there any particular article you don't agree with, then please come forward with which one, and what you feel I should correct.

I was myself an investor in Cap Cana with two units in Punta Palmera. So my knowledge to the matters I write about is profound. In regards to Roco Ki then buyers are complaining if you take a look at the DR1.com forum, but I have not received the amount of complaints that could justify an article about them.

That should complete all your resent questions Raymond.

Please write to help@dominicanwatchdog.org if you need my help. It's FREE and I don't sell advertising on any website related to Dominican Watchdog. I have never asked for any money to be returned that didn't come from my pocket in the first place, and my website cost USD 2000 per month to run, so please come forward with your extortion proof....

If more people had the guts, time and money to move forward like me, the whole world would be a better place, and the Dominican Republic in particular would be a much nicer and safer for investors, because it's a beautiful Island. Maybe you are not from my part of the world where human rights and consumer protection laws have strong roots, but let me tell you, it's the only right way to build a respected society.

[Unregistered]

To all investors out there

Please do not listen to the negative comments about domincian watchdog, these negative comments are coming from the people who took our money and done a runner.

Anyone who starts telling the truth gets shouted down or discredited.

You have my support domincian watchdog, from EBBC investor.

[Unregistered]

why dog watchdog, its ricarda who ripped everyone off, the people should be out to get ricarda, however hes to big, and bad to be taken down. He is one of the best con artists in the world, maddof is proud of him, many get caught but he runs free. leave watchdog alone and do something about ricarda, if you can. All of you talk tough but you are weak, your energy and hate is towards the wrong person. Went to punta perla early april no construction, no nothing, money is gone, face the truth it will set you free. watchdog many people who dog you are part of ricards group. any one who says they got money back needs to stop dreaming, thank you ricarda for teaching me to trust no one, enjoy my money as you will get yours one day, remember a eye for a eye a tooth for a tooth, your day will come. keep up the good work watchdog, who cares if you are a scum, you did not steal from me

[Joey123]

this is a forum on Estepona Beach and Country Club. I think this was exclusive to Ocean View Properties. OVP took my money on the pretence of keeping in a secure account. I don't know about PP other then what I read, see, hear. It does not seem great. There is no doubt something odd is going on. The Morocco site seems to have disappeared from existance (or has it - does anyone have any current information?). Anyway, OVP nicked my money - an undisputable FACT! Not RM. OVP - the company owned by Colin Thomas.

[Unregistered]

this is a forum on Estepona Beach and Country Club. I think this was exclusive to Ocean View Properties. OVP took my money on the pretence of keeping in a secure account. I don't know about PP other then what I read, see, hear. It does not seem great. There is no doubt something odd is going on. The Morocco site seems to have disappeared from existance (or has it - does anyone have any current information?). Anyway, OVP nicked my money - an undisputable FACT! Not RM. OVP - the company owned by Colin Thomas.

Hi to last poster. Ricardo and OVP are linked to EBCC, Punta Perla & Morco. There will be big legal groups hitting Ricardo over the next number of months. There will be collective approach from authorities around the world to trace this money and bring down this Ponzi scheme. On the back of that the election will be over and there will be a co ordinated coverage on Television and press regarding this to get our money back and to stop them selling anymore. This will stop Ricardo selling property to anyone else.

[Joey123]

Thank-you. I am very aware of the point you make regarding OVP's involvement with PP, Royal Maroc Sports and Leisure and the relaunched Tafedna Bay etc. My point is that OVP took my money and were supposed to keep it pending a build licence. They stole my money and are criminals in doing so. We need evidence to stack up and a successful prosecution to take place so they end up in jail and every penny of assets that can be traced are used to refund their victims. £27m on EBCC alone.

If I was involved in PP as an investor, I would be calling for hard evidence of all facts to be made available. What I have seen so far would lead me to be very worried. Some of the so called evidence of construction having started picture had me falling off my chair with laughter. The pictures did not look like how a construction site would look and seemed an effort to appease investors or buy time. (That's just how it looked, maybe it was real).

It is not my business (PP, Tafedna Bay etc) but I read the forums out of interest having been conned of £70k on EBCC.

I do hope that this chap will feel the full force of an official investigation into his activities for the simple sake of getting some truth, and of course if he has done nothing wrong, he has nothing to fear.

Unlike, OVP, the should be worried, very worried, but I hope we have the evidence to back up the case.

[Unregistered]

these postings are why we have achieved absolutely nothing including me we all love to rattle on about how hard done we all are but do nothing constructive about it you do not have to be einstein to work it out ricardo miranda has through agents on morocco spain and the carribean misled us about land ownership morocco no land estepona no land and punta perla some land but he does not own it all any money he has recieved he has sent to punt perla that is the direction we all need to focus any money out of the people at ocean view will go to genuine creditors and grant thornton yes revenge is sweet but i wont my money back and i am using lawyers to do it for me which is what we all should be doing wished i had used a lawyer in the first place and i would not be in this mess and if i had i would have hoped they would have stopped me if not i would be sueing them now mind you if miranda had built it least i would have a property but ironically i could not afford it so maybe i am not so worse off after all if i can recover some

[Joey123]

You are in the unfortunate position of not having used a lawyer for the transaction. You point is correct. However, for me the money was supposed have stopped with OVP. Whether I should have been advised not to have transferred the money is another matter. To the last poster, how big is your group of "investors" who invested without the use of a lawyer and what is the group lawyer advising as to your next moves or current moves to get refunded? I assume there are breaches to sue on? If you have not managed to get a group together to act collectively why not. I have. So it is not mere words.

[Unregistered]

To the last poster i would say there are very precise lines of action

1 if you are as i am a customer on esteopona beach as much as i hold ocean view responsible they clearly did not act alone i would engage with lawbird with action against miranda because my contract is between sungolf and me and as lawbird has proved in a spanish court with gardens of manilva the developer is responsible for the client ocean view was the agent and there must be plenty of proof that grant thornton have in the records to support this

2 if you used a lawyer as i stupidly did not i would use an english lawyer to sue and lodge a claim against the insurance of the lawyer for negligence


3 if you are a gardens of manilva client as some postings on eye on spain have said i again would use lawbird or the lawyers that one the case against the bank guarantee on the site

4 as an estepona client i am convinced my settlement along with everyone will come from the land he owns in punta perla how does he think he can carry on building there and just walk away from his legal and moral responsibilitys for 300 + PEOPLE we all just need to be focused with 1 or2 lawyers acting for all of us

[Joey123]

I agree with you - I am on EBCC. Can we chat? Are you a member of the other forum? If so what is your sign in?

[Unregistered]

All,

At the end of the day, we are all in the same boat. We have been victims of theft by
Colin Thomas and his partner in crime Ricardo Miranda. Who I am sure will get exactly what they deserve in the very near future.

Even for those that have current group action for professional negligence, which should prove successful. My solicitor has just confirmed that my original solicitor should never of released any money or even told us to sign contracts as she never saw any documents to prove ownership of the Estepona land. I would still suggest that we all still register our details with Lawbird as this route could also prove successful.

[Unregistered]

Colin Thomas, I have been informed by someone who has rather close links to your family that you have a slight addiction to checking these forums, I wonder why! Probably the fact that you have ruined many many lives and you wonder if people will just let you get away with it. Think again!

My wife is suffering from severe depression, since falling into massive arrears on our mortgage, due to the fact you have stolen 70k from us. Everyday that goes by and you do nothing to help sort the situation, the hate that people have for you grows on a considerable scale.

You should be very worried, the noose is tightening around your neck on a daily basis. Its only a matter of time before you are banged up and your family can go through hell like many others due to your dirty business scams.

[Unregistered]

I posted what the reality of our situation and yes we are all in a financial mess but there is a recourse the hardest battle is for us all to come together to approach grant thornton who are in the shoes of ocean view and ricardo miranda but with postings like the last one there will be absolutely no sympathy because why did you not use a solicitor and would you buy a property in england without a solicitor imagine if miranda had built it sounds like me you could not even afford to complete on it but you like me it is easy to blame others nobody forced me to write the cheque out the sooner we stop bleating on in this way and act in a proffesinal manner the sooner we will be taken seriously do you really not think the likes of grant thornton have not seen this before to me the issue is why did ocean view transfer my money to miranda and were they decieved and if so what action can be taken and it seems this miranda is doing the same again in morocco and punta perla there must be action that can be taken against miranda for not delivering a property and how can he just disregard over 300 of us the people at ocean will be dealt with by the professionals let us stop bleating on and join forces to deal with this and take responsibility for the decisions we took for issues led by one of the sins of the world GREED

[Joey123]

ok, so GT d not respond to requests for meetings to discuss this. So do you have any proposals to work on a united front?

[Unregistered]

whatever money may have been transferred to miranda, ovp states in this document to have received the refund. did anyone ever receive a signed contract...one solicitor has indicated that without the contract, i do not have much claim in spain.

www.rapidshare.com/files/384470354/_Untitled_.pdf

[Joey123]

Do you not have a copy of the contract you signed? If there is evidence of your entering to a contract, you signed it, copies of letters from OVP, bank statements showing transfers of deposits all may not be lost. Try looking at the other website postings. One of the lawyers on behind this site I think is having sucess in these circumstances - try emailing them under "ask a lawyer" above

Regards
Joey123

[Unregistered]

cannot get onto to see the document but relax the modus operandi is the same on estepona beach morocco and punta perla do not own the land and use agents to communicate with us but never deals directly with us all the money we paid went to the agents first and the balance went to the land in punta perla looking at the singing pig web site miranda clearly does not own all the land he has told all the agents and customers that he owns on this site either this man who seems to hide behind a lot of people has a lot to answer for

THE RESOLUTION 1 prove payments by ocean view to sungolf and then trace where the money then went which will link us to punta perla
2 prove paper work between ocean view and sungolf there must be contracts in place or at worst emails between the companys during 2005 and 2009
3 grant thornton should have the answers to the above
4 are we creditors of ocean view or the developer
5 if we are creditors of the developer ie on estepona sungolf then we could have action against sungolf which should lead to the land in punta perla
6 join together accept as we have been told that there is no money in ocean view and concentrate on proving that sungolf and ultimetly ricardo miranda is responsible for us as his clients i have a copy my contract all be it unsigned by him but never the less miranda is responsible for his agent
7 work with a lawyer with the ability to tie it all together estepona beach morocco and punta perla

[Unregistered]

I knew someone who used to work for the above at Cannock. He also stopped paying salary & they took him to court, but they never got the money. See also a company called Advantage Africa. He is now apparently on Facebook.

[Unregistered]

Watched this thread, with interest! Does anyone have concrete proof that JKS is / was actually a director of this, now liquidated, company? The reason I ask is that, I can irrefutably confirm that he is now the MD of another company, claiming to wipe out peoples credit card, personal loans, etc', etc' debts, under certain circumstances. More than a little worrying, as this entails a person passing all credit card, and lots of other, personal details over to them, which would / could fetch a premium price in certain countries!

Is this the same JKS?

I understand that Mr Farrington is doing the same sort of thing as well as being a director of a company called Advantage Africa. I understand he is also on Facebook.

[denise]

I have sent numerous letters to Thornton and have not received one word.
My husband has had cancer and now only has one kidney and lives from day to day with complications .This I think is because of the upset that we have had and we are now bankrupt

[Unregistered]

Has anyone out there contacted any of the above TV programmes for some exposure or investigation. I believe that it is about time this issue is put firmly into the public domain. Perhaps TV reporters might be a little more forward about finding out the truth than some people who are presently on the case.
Just interested in your opinions.

[Joey123]

It's pointless - Other than a one off episode to warn people nothing could be done. It is all history now so there is nothing to achieve.

They will not or cannot investigate to a level to achieve any useful result - they have no access to records for one. If Grant Thornton are hitting brick walls, it is Staff Police who can be most useful to ensure the financial investigations are carried out by those with the capability to do and the ability to bring crimnal proceedings. This is in progress.

[Joey123]

I would not mind someone having a look at Punta Perla which seems to possibly being sold still as a project in progress (especially given the OVP/EBCC/Ricardo connection)!!!

[Joey123]

May I suggest if they have been written to with no response or acknowledement you send copies of them by recorded delivery with 14 days to respond even if it is with a "sorry we cannot tell you anything at this stage answer". if then still no reply then threaten to drop their monitoring body a line - that should do it - then do it if no joy. As long as what you are writting to them about is not just a rant!

Sorry to hear of your other bad luck!

[Unregistered]

colin spends alot of time at the meynell pub at hoar cross

[Unregistered]

I worked at OVP at Longdon Green and am ashamed now when I look at forums like this. They also left me high and dry in the end without final salary - just dumped, but that's nothing compared to what some of you have lost and I feel so sorry for you.
The actual property proposition looked so good I may have put a deposit down myself or advised friends to at one point in the early days but then things seemed to be dodgy although we never knew exactly what was really going on until we were out on our ear. Reading the Express revelations even shocked many of us.
I have ridiculous stories of excessive Christmas parties and lavish spending of Directors entertaining themselves. You don't want to know what they were blowing the money on when abroad. One eg was XXX having a hotel room at a 5 star hotel constantly booked for him where he could leave his clothes even while in the UK.
XXX , Mike Blades, Colin Thomas.....they were xxx of the highest order to work for and I would love to see them all brought to justice and banged up for a long time.
Good luck to you all.

[Joey123]

last posted -thank-you. It is important this infomation is known to DI Spears at Staff Police. Will you do this please?

[Unregistered]

last posted -thank-you. It is important this infomation is known to DI Spears at Staff Police. Will you do this please?

please send all info to di spears

[Unregistered]

To the ex ov member of staff to not get paid you must have been there to the end which makes you as guilty as the crooks that ran it you w***ker but like all the sl*gs at ocean view you were happy to be paid youre salary with my money and everyone else that has lost a fortune whilst working for those crooks you could have got out at any time but feeding on all our money was to good and no doubt along with all the other agents and crooked developers the piss up on our money was great i am glad you got dumped it is a real pity that the bast**ds you worked for and all the lieing staff and the gready agents the sh*t lawyers and the fraudster developers were not on that plane that crashed in brazil you should be ashamed innocent people have lost a fortune and posting crap like that achieves nothing go to di spears and grant thornton and help them

[Unregistered]

thomas has a nice house in aberdovey and is a member of the mad club in hoar croos

[Unregistered]

I believe that a lot of OV members of staff originally came forward to assist the fraud squad, however due to the level of abuse aimed at them most have now disappeared out of sight.
You have no idea what I did at OV, in fact I will let you know that I was in IT and I hated the directors and those franchise office sales idiots who used to come swanning in to the office like they owned the place.
If you think that Colin Thomas and his other robbing accomplices ever came to me at some point to advise me that I was in fact working for a load of bandits who were ripping off innocent people worldwide and that was paying my salary then you are quite mistaken!!
You are right, my post achieves nothing but a friend told me about this forum and as I read through the threads I was shocked and saddened.
Don't tar everyone with the same brush. Your issue is with the 5/6 key people who were running the "business" and as I say, I truly hope they are brought to justice.

[Joey123]

I think the people working at OVP were unaware of what actually ended up happening as it happened, although they must have suspected something amiss at some stage.

I would leave them be and if they post something, welcome it, not have a go at them. They should be willling to co-operate with Staff Police though. This fraud I believe came from the top. I would be interested in the name of the 5 of 6 and who the ex-ovp person feels was responsible and which one was not. Anger must be direct where due. Who was controling the flow of money. Who was living like a King at our expense?

[Unregistered]

I cannot confirm whether or not this is up todate information, but I have seen Longdon Hall up for sale. On one site it states 'under offer'.
I jolly well hope that Grant Thornton have firm control over this sale. The property is owned by Colin Thomas so any funds from any sale will have to be frozen and held until all investigations into Colin's illegal scam have been completed.

[Joey123]

why post the above info here?? Can't you deal with this with Grant Thornton and tell how you got on? Longdon Hall was never an asset of OVP, as you know, but also, as you know, the money we entrusted to OVP which was supposed to be held separately but must have been used to fund the refurb of this property and pay for rent to CT to pay the mortgage he had from Barclays Bank on this.

I thought GT had frozen certain assets? Anyone buying this asset eventually could risk it being taken under the POCA, surely?? That said, it depend on their being a sucessfull prosecution first. there's more chances of England qetting through the group stages!

I think we will not get any joy and the crimnals will get away with this one.

[Unregistered]

you **** if you posted something of relevance not something that is common knowledge then perhaps people wold take us seriously

[Joey123]

Exactly who are you aiming that comment at? This matter is being taken seriously. There is not going to be much new news is there? Staff Police need the support of the SFO and GT are doing their work? OVP stuctured the scam in such a way to make it as difficult as possible to invesitagate and with this being a cross border invesiagation involving other companies it is so easy for the criminals to make it easy to get away with this scam

[Unregistered]

My husband and I are rather confused by the above comment. What will these kind of comments achieve. We are in a very difficult position having just retired and quite frankly do not appreciate these type of comments. If your going to comment please be constructive and more considerate to those that are going through hell at the moment.

[Joey123]

i have had the posting removed

[Unregistered]

I hear ricarda just purchased a five million villa in costa rica, though a remax realtor, at least he putting are money to good use and enjoying himself. We all have lost everything he and his friends are involved in. I must move on and face the truth, will be forced to work till I die, thanks to him

[Unregistered]

I can tell you for certain the SFO and Staffs police had a meeting two weeks ago to try and decide who is going to deal with this mess we are in. I think the SFO will end up dealing with it. Anybody with any information should contact D I Spears at Staffs Police.

[Unregistered]

I have sent numerous letters to Thornton and have not received one word.
My husband has had cancer and now only has one kidney and lives from day to day with complications .This I think is because of the upset that we have had and we are now bankrupt

Read the message regarding contacting media. Sent a letter to watchdog years ago stating I thought something was not right when I did not receive my deposit back. When my apartment was resold .
Did not hear one word

[Joey123]

forget the media - this is info for DI Spears who I assume you have sent full details

[Unregistered]

Do those of you who track CT know if he's actually in Staffordshire right now? I'm trying to make sure someone of the same name in another country is not the same man.

Just to let you know Mr. Thomas is still in the UK, living in Yoxall, Staffordshire. I personally saw him last Friday, both he and his partner looking very smug with themselves!

[Unregistered]

Just to let you know Mr. Thomas is still in the UK, living in Yoxall, Staffordshire. I personally saw him last Friday, both he and his partner looking very smug with themselves!

Mike Blades now runs his own pub in Lichfield.

[Unregistered]

Having read through this forum, a number of you have raised concerns regarding the conflict of interest revolving around Grant Thornton as administrators.
I think people should also be asking the question on why Grant Thornton are also acting in the cases of several of Mr. Thomas's other companies, namely The Goddard Group and Blackbrook Antiques Village which were also run from Longdon Hall.
I think a bit more digging into Mr. Thomas's other business interests and why the same adminstrator is handling a number of liquidations all fronted by the same man.
Doesn't seem right to me.

[Joey123]

That's bizare. Can you point us in the direction of where to look to find this information?

[Unregistered]

Go to Companies House website and do a search on The Goddard Group and Blackbrook Antiques Village, which are both in administration, both with registered addresses at Longdon Hall and both with Grant Thornton as the Administrator.
A full search of Mr. Thomas and his directorships on Company House's website will lead to some ineresting findings!

[Joey123]

on second thoughts, it may well be that these activites by GT relate to the OVP liquidation as the funds from the investors surely went somewhere. Before we cast dispersions we need to bear this in mind. The former is not being dealt with by GT in any event, or nothing at Companies House gives any indication of this being so which it surely would after their appointment as they assume full control of the company and have their office address as their registered office pending the resolution of the liquidation. Currently, there is just a proposal to strike of the company in place

[Unregistered]

The Goddard Group controlled the antiques business. Go to the antiques business website and you will see that.

[Unregistered]

I am only trying to give you pointers. You are all complaining that you are not hearing anything from Grant Thornton.
You need to look at the bigger picture of Mr. Thomas and Miss De Havilland along with her family.
While you are all suffering through the loss of your hard earned money, they are enjoying spending it.
Start looking behind the facade, search into the companies that they control or did control and really look at who is handling their affairs.
This was a crime of stupendous proportions and they are laughing all the way to the bank.

[Joey123]

hey, don't get me wrong, we are just as convinced as you we have been screwed and looking at this guy's background just confirms this. All info is extremely well received. However, what you are suggesting is the key people at Grant Thornton should be looked at.
This seems preposterious. If you have concerns, deal with them with DI Spears. However, I cannot see that the GT liquidators are going to act other than properly and professional.

This situation is driving the victims mad with stress and worry.

Let's get constructive here. You obviously have info on this sh*t. Use it to benefit us all.

DI Spears of Staffordshire Police must have all information on this bloke and his accomplaces. We need them brought to account.

He will piss off somewhen for sure. The clock is ticking. His days of criminality need ending. He needs to be put away for a long time.

[Unregistered]

Do you have an email address or contact details for DI Spears as I also know someone who is owed a lot of money by Mr (Name removed upon request) & will ask them to contact him. He is apparently head of a company called Advantage Africa & is also on Facebook I see....

[Joey123]

what has that got to do with Estepona Beach and Country Club and Ocean View Properties etc? Never heard of this individual. Please explain the connection.

[Unregistered]

these men get away with murder! he has a man called (Name removed upon request) working for him he was arrested for child abuse and is working for charities not good!

Who Said This Man (Name removed upon request) Was Arrested For Child Abuse Please Get Back To Me Think I Know This Dangerous Man!!

[denise bannell]

Bought mine from Martin Roberts and Kirsty at the Ocean View office in Bath in 2004

Well the years have clicked by and still no news is we will ever get our money back or the 20p to a pound . I am desperate for money and can not make ends meet . Lost approx 108 thousand Euros . Husband lost a kidney from cancer last year and now been diagnosed whith dementia will this ever end

[Joey123]

did you use an ovp recommended solicitor as there as you might have another avenue to explore.

Other than the GT update letters I have heard nothing. The liquidation investigation is very slow.

[Unregistered]

its been over 5 years at punta purla ricarda scam, still no one does anything fbi interpol to busy with other things they told us. accept the money is gone in all projects and pray some day somewhere some one will take him down. many peoples life marriage retirement college funds all taken, there is no justice and life is not fair teach your children well, trust no one. thank you jesus in his name . may your faith in god help every one deal with this. god bless the lord justice will happen some day remember the only way to true peace is to walk with the prince of peace lord jesus christ amen

[Joey123]

i have to say that all this religious stuff is a bit beyond me. It is nice if it comforts people.

What seems to be evident is that the central link between EBCC, PP, Tafedna Bay/ Royal Moroc is a person who needs to be investigated.

PP still seems to be being sold. Building work has supposed to have been started with pictures published.

There simply is no credible police force in Spain, England or the US to deal with this matter. Crime is on too large a scale to investiage all but the easy targets or the politcally correct ones.

Why don't they investigate this man and find out the truth. If he cares about his reputation he should publish the facts. If anyone were to tarnish myself or any thing I was involved with I would wish to defend myself. Does he exist. Who else is involved.

Is the truth that people have been well and trully scammed?

[Unregistered]

Do you know the name of the Pub that Mike Blades is running please?

[Joey123]

no but this comes up when you google his name and the place - don;t know if this is his place or him or not. You will have to call and find out. Let us know if he has anything useful to say about our money if it is one and the same Mike Blades. Do not jepordise the investigtions which I am sure are nearly there with the SFO just about to swoop! Not!

http://www.thebestof.co.uk/local/lichfield/events/252341/sundown-funk-with-fat-digester

[Unregistered]

why do we give a monkeys who works where and why all we need is a concerted effort against ocean view and the developer does anyone now FACTUALLY what is happening with clients on estepona beach. I have heard nothing from grant thornton have spoken to a friend who is a lawyer who says i should have a case against the developer sungolf and ricardo miranda who is in my contract but do not have the funds to pursue on my own anyone now of a lawyer to speak to ?

[Unregistered]

News update April 4, 2010 - Ricardo Miranda lost Class A lawsuit from angry investors in Spanish fantasy project.



News update April 19, 2010 Nuria Piera removes Punta Perla broadcast from her website



News update date April 29, 2010 - Again a new Punta Perla website live at www.puntaperla.com

Also today - Sungolf - OVP lost another case in Spain on April 23 - puntaperla.wordpress.com



News Update MAY 6, 2010 from Spanish Lawyer Antonio's blog:

"....... there is sufficient evidence to consider criminal prosecution against Ricardo Miranda Miret, the director of the company at the time (and still is) and its shareholders Rosa MarÃ*a Prado Rubio and Javier Espinosa"

"If one reads the article and analyses how the whole plan was concocted, it seems clear that there was not the slightest intention to build and sell 395 units in Estepona by either Sungolf Desarrollo Inmobiliario S.A or OVP, respectively, but just to extract €30 million to buy into the Dominican Republic Punta Perla development, which makes this a massive swindle equivalent in size to the Fortuna Land scam although with an international component"

Click on Antonio's blog above to read the full content. Or go to this copy secured by Dominican Watchdog



It looks like the presure from angry investors who lost money on the other Ricardo Miranda projects is building up from around the world. Lawbird and CostaLuz in Spain has together more than 20 pending cases against Sungolf and OVP. A group of Irish investors who have invested in both Estapona and Punta Perla is preparing a massive law suit against Ricardo Miranda.

Dominican Watchdog has received copies of emails from Pellerano Herrera and Guzman in the Dominican Republic. One thing is clear from these emails. Mark Andrews post about the land being without mortgage and free of any liens is NOT true! Furthermore the law firm can only confirm that Paraiso Tropical has just under 2,5 Million M2 of land and not the 10 Million as advertised. Dominican Watchdog is still waiting to see the proclaimed valuation of USD 2 Billion from the Dominican National Bank which Mark Andrews claims to have seen.



Here is a part of the email from Wed, 5 May, 2010 0:30:07 :

...............Regarding the matter of reference we have conducted an informal investigation on the lots as the only assets indentified in the Dominican Republic under the control and property of Paraiso Tropical, S.A.

In that sense, parcel No.67-B-20, D.C. 11/3ra. with an extension of 94Has., 23As. and 10Cas, and Parcel No. 67-B-18. D.C. 11/3ra. with an extension of 09Has., 96As. and 07Cas, by ruling from the Land Court, have been merged into one piece of land under Title Deed number 1000018253, with an extension of 2,429,299.50 Meters Square, property of Paraiso Tropical, S. A. and are affected by the following liens, oppositions and litigation:

a. First Mortgage on behalf of Inversiones Mijarma, S. A. of USD$15,000,000.00
b. Opposition on behalf of Oscar Rachell DomÃ*nguez.
c. Notification of Real State Litigation on behalf of the Land Court according to official letter of August, 13th, 2007 Notification of Real State Litigation on behalf of Carlos Sánchez, Andrés Liester MartÃ*nez, Inversiones CCF, S. A., Chesley Investment, S. A., Internacional de Valores, S. A., Boreal S. A., Centros Comerciales Dominicanos, S.A. and Adzer Bienes RaÃ*ces, S. A., according to notification of December, 09th, 2009................

end of email from Domincian law firm

---------

ATTENTION:

Yesterday MAY 5th 2010, Dominican Watchdog sent an email to Nuria Piera for an explanation about why her webcast about Punta Perla was removed from her website after 9 days of showing. In the interest of international consumers protection and until escrow accounts has been established for Punta Perla consumer warnings from national and international media is required.

[Unregistered]

yes i have been following the websites and rather hoping on grant thornton but i do not know what i was hoping on but it seems we are not alone you have TAFEDNA BAY NOT BUILT ESTEPONA BEACH NOT BUILT AND PUNTA PERLA SURROUNDED IN ALLEGATIONS OF FRAUD NO ESCROW ACCOUNT AND MASSIVE DISPUTE OVER WHAT LAND HE DOES OWN IT SOUNDS VERY SIMILAR TO ME SAME AGENTS AS WELL looks like this RICARDO MIRANDA is a real gem

[Unregistered]

To the previous poster. Do you know what Lawbird are actually doing? They emailed me several months ago and said they were looking into the Estepona situation, but never got back to me. Are you sure they have cases going through the court?

Lawbird, if your reading. Could you please give us an update and let us know if you are taking Estepona clients on?

Thanks

[Unregistered]

I believe lawbird are concentrating on gardens of manilva clients our case is more complicated and we should be getting help from grant thornton because they have all of the records of ocean view and wether our money should have gone to ricardo miranda or not it did and his name and company are in my contract and it looks like he has done the same on tafedna bay are there any clients for this development out there it would be good if we all could join together because it looks like everything points at punta perla and ricardo miranda as to where i am going to get something

[Unregistered]

I have been following all comments on this site and also on Eye On Spain since i purchased 2 Properties with OVP in October 2006. Since then i have listened to endless lies from Longdon Hall, transferred to Tafedna Bay,contacted Unico in Spain and failed to get any reply from the 3 rogues who sold me these properties in N Ireland. Over the last year and a half we have had newspaper reports, SBS,Insolvency Service,Grant Thornton,Staffordshire Police and The SFO.
My point is that i have lost £150,000 AND NOONE WHO SHOULD CARE OR IS THERE TO PROTECT YOU REALLY GIVES A F**K.
Someone on here talks about God. Cant see it myself. My life has been totally been absorbed by this mess and someone will have to provide a few answers soon.

[Joey123]

the SFO are still considering the case - f*cking joke - the thieving bastards must be having a right laugh

[Unregistered]

To the last poster these ill directed and abusive texts do not help yes that is how we all feel but if we are to be taken seriously we have to be a collective and need to be focused we are the general public the punter who should come together under one voice i know doubt will get shot down in flames for the next bit but we took a decision to invest in a spanish property it has not worked for all the reasons we know and baying for blood in this way will not get back my money back but action against the developer will he has the develpment in the caribean where money went from not just us clients on estepona but also tafedna bay in morocco we need a good lawyer to represent us then we need a good website and press campaign against ricardo miranda then he will have to listen to us and pay us back because whatever went on between ocean view and miranda he is ultimately responsible as he is the developer read the case that was won by lawbird against manilva costa whose name is on our contract signed or unsigned it does not matter a judge in spain found the developer responsible for all the money would people be willing to join this action

[Unregistered]

What planet are you on. Winning a case against any of these rogues means nothing. Our only hope is the Accountants or the Serious Fraud Squad. The men who instigated this are laughing at us. Years of living it up off our money. One Director had a room in Spain which he never stayed in but he kept his clothes in. How sick is that.
I seriously hope they end up behind bars.

[Joey123]

I made the posting you referred to and yes it does not help but OVP took my money and were not supposed to release it to RM untill there was a build licence in place. Many years of lies and bull came to nothing. My money was stolen and staff police are still trying to get the SFO involved. I feel let down.

My money has been stolen. I want justice. I want the police and the law of the land to provide the justice. Ok, if there can be action against the developer I want that too.

[Joey123]

We did take a decision to invest in Spanish Property but not to gamble on whether we would get on or whether the money would be stolen. I reakon you are ex-OVP tring to deflect action from yourselves. We all know our money was stolen by a bunch of crooks.

[Unregistered]

To the last poster no i am not i currently work in asset recovery in dubai and bought 2 propertys from kirsty roberts in bath and i have a vast amount of experience in this field. I last posted on eye on spain as pi in feb and a quick test a couple of days ago. That aside what you seem to be missing in your witch hunt is a witch and quite simply if ocean view sent some of the money to the developer then grant thornton should be looking to recover it. If the same situation could be proved that as the developer ricardo miranda is responsible legally then we have a route to get all our money back . In spite of the asset report done and posted on eye on spain he has money and assets for us to launch a claim against.I stupidly and for the first time in my life did not use a solicitor if i did i would be sueing them and i guess you must be in the same place as me .I have gathered quite a lot of info over the last 6 months but have been waiting on grant thornton who will have to establish whether we are creditors or not, then we will have a clear route. In the mean time we should form our own group /commitee and not be having a go at each other.Revenge/ justice is great but it wont get me or you youre money back ..

[Joey123]

I agree. I have asked you before how or what you proposed re setting up a group. I saw your posting as pi (very good) and your test posting.

I am in the fortunate (or unfortunate) position of being able to go down the route of suing a solcitor.

GT do not need to provide updates very often so we know nothing regarding the progress other than the info earlier in the year and last year where they hit a brickwall at the Spanish side.

Please make a proposal for a way forward. I am registered with the Lawbird and they are looking into action against RM. If they have a proposal for EBCC they will let me/us know.

revenge would be sweet, but outside of the law. I cannot act outside of the law. It is not in my nature. I do not want to be the one going to jail for this, but we know who should!

[Unregistered]

Thanks know how you feel but if a lawyer advised you why have you not got action against there insurance yes i could help organise an action group rather discuss it off line could you email me on pi505050@gmail.com have a lot of info that could be used sensibly but when i was here before was put off by the vigilante approach even though i know how they feel

[aflores]

We are preparing a case on behalf of investors against whoever took the funds for the Estepona development and to that effect we are expecting to receive a report drawn up by the Spanish Police, in connection to the Operation Malaya investigations, where there is a list of all the transaction that took place between OVP, Estepona Beach and Country Club and companies in the Dominican Republic.

It important to note that a civil case here is no longer advisable as the mechanisms of this proposal are far to weak to be able to deal succesfully with the matter at stake.

Also, it is important to note that any legal action requires infrastructure and funds to finance it, as well as time, so that the destination of the funds each one of the persons who paid OVP for a property at the EBCC can be traced. We are at the moment working on it to be able to release important findings, but will require a bit more time.

This is the core of the question because it will determine who profited personally from the funds sent by hundreds of people. At the end of the day, if OVP people, EBCC or Miranda Miret received the funds, what did they do with them?

I suggest that we concentrate on Lawbird Legal Services dealing with this matter simply because we have more information than anyone else does at this point in time and will be obtaining, from lawyers acting within the Operation Malaya, the rest of the information we require.

Finally, I have a meeting with Grant Thornton at some point next week and will be, hopefully, providing them information they lack (and viceversa).

[Unregistered]

Do you know the name of the Pub that Mike Blades is running please?

It is the George IV, in the centre of Lichfield, next door to the Guildhall.

[Unregistered]

To the last poster please explain the relevance of the last post. To the poster of 392 you can know hopefully understand what i mean where there is no relevance to the thread being discussed. No wonder we are getting nowhere !

[Unregistered]

Lawbird,

Thank you for the update on your progress.

You seem to be gathering alot of useful information regarding this crime/fraud.

Due to the fact that some of us will not be able to claim for negligence, perhaps Grant Thornton could help build a group with you, if they are unable to sort this mess. I will be surprised if they cannot sort it as they have a massive amount of resource available to them.

By getting all investors together the cost will be kept to a minimum, which is better for us all.

[Unregistered]

I totally agree with the last poster. Hopefully GT,The SFO or Lawbird will bring us all together. Only chance of success is if we are united as one group. Led by Joey 123 would also be good..

[Unregistered]

To yesterdays 11.22 poster. Why are you unable to claim for negligence??

[Unregistered]

Stupidly we never used a solicitor. We have made contact with some people that did and their solicitor has just informed them that they have a very strong case for negligence and will be acting for them on a no win no fee basis as he feels the case is going to be straight forward. We are hoping that the law will help us get our money back.

[Joey123]

which firm is offering the no/win no fee basis? Is confirmed please?

Joey123 cannot lead a whole group action. If it not possible. (It's me)

[Joey123]

poster 396 - to explain (from posted of 392):

Mike Blades was "operations director" - a title at OVP. OVP was based in Lichfleld in Staffordshire. Mike Blades is rumoured to be running a pub in Lichfield. This pub has a chap of the same name running it. Who knows if he is anything other than a landlord/tennant? We do not know if it is one and the same Mike Blades. We certainly do not know if he owns it.

If the later - a substantial sum from OVP investors is missing. I guess people would like to know, if this is the same person, what he might have to say for himself. However, I guess is he may have just been a monkey of the main man and his sidekick.

I hope that helps explain the relevance.

there are a few areas of investigation/recovery plans:

1) Action against solicitors
2) Action against Sungolf
3) Asking the people directly involved where our money is.

I do not know if anyone is doing the later. But if someone is able to do so they need to be able to find them to ask them where our money is. Of course, it is "with Sungolf" - if that is so, and frankly I doubt it, "why is it there?" is the question and what are they doing to recover it is the question they will have to answer. Reasons so far is that it is in line with our "agency agreeement" per Stuart Jones.

We are still in the hope GT are going to advise and perhaps the SFO.

There are no too many nonsense posts. Angry posts occur and if they direct abuse at the people who stole our money, so what? It will not make any difference one way or the other.

[Unregistered]

Understand but we already have been given the answer from grant thornton in there last update now all we need is action to recover it from sungolf and let us hope "our friends" at ocean view were decieved by miranda because if ocean view were the agent as they claim then the developer is responsible and our claim would increase for miranda being responsible for it all unless we all still think it is sitting in a little account somewhere believe it or not and it grieves me to say it but let us hope the w***k** at ocean view were decieved because grant thornton are now in there shoes and would have action against miranda sun golf .It just takes one good lawyer good info and us the clients .

[andres lietor]

News Ricardo Miranda

http://www.caribepreferente.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11437&Itemid=40

[aflores]

Dear All,

It has just been known that an arrest warrant has been issued against Ricardo Miranda Miret in the Dominican Republic. Coinciding though not related with this I will be releasing parts of the money laundering report obtained from the Malaya Court Case informing minutely on money transfers between Sungolf Desarrollo Inmobiliario SA, Punta Perla Caribbean Limited and Paraiso Tropical, as well as Berkeley Investments (owned by Sean Woodhall), Miret´s personal account and other entities and persons.

It would be interesting to collate this information with Grant Thornton´s findings since presumably they did not have access to the 20 page report prepared by La Caixa savings bank at the request of the Spanish Anti-Money Laundering Service (www.sepblac.com)

This information will be available in the next 2 hours in my personal blog.

Thanks

[Unregistered]

Dear All,

It has just been known that an arrest warrant has been issued against Ricardo Miranda Miret in the Dominican Republic. Coinciding though not related with this I will be releasing parts of the money laundering report obtained from the Malaya Court Case informing minutely on money transfers between Sungolf Desarrollo Inmobiliario SA, Punta Perla Caribbean Limited and Paraiso Tropical, as well as Berkeley Investments (owned by Sean Woodhall), Miret´s personal account and other entities and persons.

It would be interesting to collate this information with Grant Thornton´s findings since presumably they did not have access to the 20 page report prepared by La Caixa savings bank at the request of the Spanish Anti-Money Laundering Service (www.sepblac.com)

This information will be available in the next 2 hours in my personal blog.

Thanks

Hello,

can you give us a source for this information?

Thanks

[Unregistered]

To be expected as he has conned people who bought in morocco in tafedna bay he has not returned there money he has sold property to people in punta perla with false buy back promises on land where the marina is going to be built and he does not own the land and to us on estepona beach where again he does not own the land and nothing has been built.Grant Thornton what is going on did ocean view transfer the money to sungolf and if they did why are you not trying to recover it

[Unregistered]

Excellent work because very importantly for us on estepona beach my client contract is with sungolf and quite clearly in 2006 miranda was sending this money to the caribean and that is when i made my payment to ocean view .Grant Thornton should be able to tie up the payments to sungolf from ocean view. Know please do not shoot me down in flames but the people at ocean view will be of help now to what really happened and why did our money go to sungolf.If we can stay foccussed we should be able to tie all this together .Lawbird have you any info on the arrangements between ocean view and sungolf other than the last statement from Grant Thornton.Come on Grant Thornton you must have access to a lot more info than you are telling us.We deserve to know.

[aflores]

Hello,

I forgot the attached the link, as promised:

http://belegal.com/blog-by-antonio-flores/ocean-view-properties-money-was-shipped-in-all-directions/

[Unregistered]

Done enough? What does any of this prove? I see a lot of copy and paste work without any substantial evidence, no dates, exact amounts are not stated nor is it indicated who is ordering any of these movements. When we know who these other companies and people truly are, we may have something to work with. Berkeley and Hallard were both companies of Sean Woodhall, who conveniently enough worked for OVP, so really, thats just the money going right back into the hands of the directors of OVP. It still gets better. So many complaining that funds from Estepona were "diverted" to the Dominican Republic, yes I see some of these supposed transfers, yet quite curious that no one makes a big fuss over that last entry, 10,000,000 going from Paraiso Tropical back to Sungolf. Lets stop and think about how investments really work, any investment really, even your daily banking. You deposit your money and the bank in the meantime does what they want with it, it is not sitting there at the cash machine waiting for your withdrawal, they have it invested in numerous possibilities. I am seeing the same thing here, Sungolf may have temporarily advanced funds to Paraiso Tropical or the other way around, either way, there is a two way flow which in my basic understanding is not fraud nor any type of illegal activity. Until Flores wants to give us real information, I am not going to get my hopes up that this means we are any closer to a resolution.

[Unregistered]

According to http://press.puntaperla.com/ Ricardo Miranda has not been arrested and this is all just another attempt to cause problems and a misstep in the justice system of the Dominican Republic. Information from 2006 is interesting, yet not all that informative, I imagine there has been quite a bit of movement since then, or is someone going to tell me JKS and CT have not sold a single property since these movements took place.

[aflores]

In reply to 409:

Thanks for the very "explanatory insight" into how investments work. Perhaps you may know something that we don´t so your input would be greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately the money movements are for a few months and not 3-4 years, which would certainly help to get the real big picture. However, if within a few months one company received 26 mm U$D what can we not expect to find withing 3 years and multiple bank accounts?

I presume you have not lost money here have you?

How would you feel if you went to the your closest car dealer, handed him 100 thousand pounds for a bran new car and got nothing in return? Would you like to sit back and think about how investments "really" work? Or would you go to the police to report massive fraud and swindle by deceipt?

In response to 410:

If an arrest warrant was issued against you, would you post in your own website that is the case?

[aflores]

To 410: If Mr. Miranda has not been arrested it is because, according to the Court ruling, he could not be found. He has also been banned from leaving the country and the Punta Perla development has been issued with an embargo for 200 mm U$D.

Below is the original Court arrest warrant issued by the Court of Instruction number 6.

http://www.caribepreferente.com/images/stories/PDFs/sentencia%20punta%20perla.pdf

[Joey123]

GT hit a brick wall as money was transferred to entities that they have no control over. They are liquidators of OVPI and the parent co. When money is transferred to other companies they cannot then simply inspect the paperwork of these other companies. Hence the problems in definitively saying what has happened to our money. They have to use the legal process, if possible. . It was either a deliberate attempt to defraud us investors of our money, or one big gamble that the deal was going to be done and properties built (i actually believe the latter) and they were okay to spend our money, which is clearly what has happened to much of the money. It was spent on running OVP and to fund the lifestyle of Colin Thomas and to do up his property at Longdon Hall and pay his mortgage on it. he did own it originally, I have the Land Registry printout. Okay, some of it was well was tranferred out (maybe this was related to the deal with Sungolf? There was an option (or something similar) over the land by Sungolf to purchase it) but a sizable chunk of the estaimated £26m EBCC deposits is, at least, 50% simply spent/taken. Longdon Hall, the Moat House, and other property owned by OVP people should be confiscated. Its dragged on too long now without serious action. At some point, they knew, that there was not going to be an EBCC but as they spent alot of the money, they were in trouble. Someone one mentions a Ponzi scheme. Well, that seems to have been what happened in the end. Except for they were useing new "investments" to issue for new money and to try to convince exisiting investors to switch to buy time. The similarities between the bullshit coming from OVP regarding Royal Moroc Sports and Leisure Club (Tafedna Bay) were laughable. Same ...build licence iminent etc, prices going to go up. Ok, so this is just high pressure tactics that should not be fallen for, but in reality, this is fraud. Obtaining money by deception. Ot at least on the face of it, it is.

I watch the Punta Perla Singing Pig thread with interest and all other comments relating it. It is so difficult to know the truth, but would it take much investigation from the authorities to review the documention and find out the truth.

We need to lobby for the authorities to investigate and lay this matter to rest. If genuinue they surely can advise. Every single investor needs to put pressure on their police force and political reresentatives to get this matter looked into propertly.

I agree with previous posters, this "new" info is of no use. How on earth could it be? It is a police matter. SOCA perhaps? Who knows. We have no power either legally represented or not to use this information. Can someone more enlighted advise me otherwise?

[Unregistered]

To the poster of 409 or should i say eva sotres or shannon at ricardo miranda office we are not going away you cannot just walk away .How are you dealing with the money that is due to all the investors in morocco or are you still pedaling the same rubbish that you are waiting for the government .

[Unregistered]

I agree but if it could be proved that ocean view were the agent of sungolf then we would have action against sungolf .Ocean view delivered on lots of developments before what went wrong with this one.We have to look at miranda because as you say same rubbish there as well but from what i understand miranda is the director of unico and that is where the deposits went and there is no land or building there and people are severly out of pocket and miranda has not returned the money to the investors .Like you i look at singing pig and it looks the same investors wanting there money back accusations of not owning all the land .I think he has very cleverly decieved a lot of people inc ocean view who then decieved us which makes them as accountable.This needs pressure in spain and here.

[Joey123]

so you agree, the only way forward is a determined invesigtion by the authorities? So surely a pressure group of all PP investors is needed along with those otherwise affected. It could be easily avoided with the help of RM if he is the central link. Rather than threatening legal action for defamation etc why not step in and publically provide a dossier of evidence setting out the actual position? The only reason not to do so if there is something to hide. surely he has to do this to protect the outcome of the project. After all, building has started (?), full Contour granted (whatever that is, if spelt correctly) and all this manificent site is all systems go! (Would love to see the up-todate pictures with some arial shots of the site please)

I just cannot see how any legal action can amount to anything if you are looking at suing RM? Surely, it is not possible to undertake such a task as the documents are not available. Yes Land Registry documents may help prove title and evidence of legal charges. But how about a balance sheet of the companies involved showing assets, deposits held etc)

Do be a bit more respectful guys to Mr Flores. At least he is on our side. Thanks for your help Mr Flores and BeLegal for the forum

[Unregistered]

[I would appreciate some responce from who ever is in charge in dealing with our stolen money, have not heard one word regarding my deposit I never received back .all the years ago .....QUOTE=Unregistered;8143]so you agree, the only way forward is a determined invesigtion by the authorities? So surely a pressure group of all PP investors is needed along with those otherwise affected. It could be easily avoided with the help of RM if he is the central link. Rather than threatening legal action for defamation etc why not step in and publically provide a dossier of evidence setting out the actual position? The only reason not to do so if there is something to hide. surely he has to do this to protect the outcome of the project. After all, building has started (?), full Contour granted (whatever that is, if spelt correctly) and all this manificent site is all systems go! (Would love to see the up-todate pictures with some arial shots of the site please)

I just cannot see how any legal action can amount to anything if you are looking at suing RM? Surely, it is not possible to undertake such a task as the documents are not available. Yes Land Registry documents may help prove title and evidence of legal charges. But how about a balance sheet of the companies involved showing assets, deposits held etc)

Do be a bit more respectful guys to Mr Flores. At least he is on our side. Thanks for your help Mr Flores and BeLegal for the forum[/QUOTE]

[Joey123]

Have you not receivied updates from Grant Thornton? There was one in July 09, one Sept 09, one April 09 and another letter in between

If not contact Sam Locke of Grant Thronton on 020 7728 2651.

Perhaps you have been omitted from the distribution list. I suggest you check you were registered as a "creditor"

[Joey123]

April 2010, not 2009 (re above) sorry

Have a look and remind yourselves of posting 306. It is factually info from Grant Thornton re EBCC, OVPI and Sungolf. Whilst contratry information, I think it does paint a bit of a picture.

GT will release more info on the next 2 months to creditors.

[Unregistered]

Guys, you should realize that getting the authorities involved is not going to happen unless we team up with a law firm(s), file a case in Court and request from the authorities (Crown Prosecutor, Polices Forces, SFO or whichever the equivalent is in Spain) a thorough investigation into that has happened.

Are we going to get the money back? Probably not, but at least the fraudsters, which we know are in the UK, Spain and the Dominican Republic, will be jailed for many years and will never ever con anyone else.

Is it throwing good money after bad? Well, it depends how much we are asked for but I would not mind paying up a couple of grand of my money to get a ruling from a Spanish/UK Court sentencing these assholes to many years in prison, a civil liability order to pay me back my money personally (whether they will one day remains to be seen) but mostly get the satisfaction of seeing that something was done.

I would like to ruin their lives just as they have with mine.

Anyone interested in joining me?

[Joey123]

Be Legal is poster of 420 correct? Can a law firm force the authorities to act? Any comments?

[ifv]

Be Legal is poster of 420 correct?

Not really, but thanks for asking. Anything we have to say, we will say it in our own name, as registered users, just like we've always done.

I take the opportunity to recommend everyone to register, so we know who is who, and avoid further confussion.

Thanks

[Unregistered]

Yes i am but rather than this vigilante feel why dont we plan it properly i feel as bad as you but it has not ruined my life i will not let it there are far worse things going on in the world and the sooner we can come across as a well organised group asking the right questions from the right people the sooner we will be able to move forward have you ever thought that as much as it pains me but if we could get some answers from the people at ocean view as to why this has happened we could then tie it all together my email address is pi505050@gmail.com .I am willing to help organise a group and sharing all the info we can until we can utilise the services of a good law firm and yes like you willing to spend a couple of grand to see justice but more importantly some or all of my money back and i know that can be done.

[Unregistered]

as a pp invester i have been informed by my lawyer the money will never be returned it is gone or in accts. that can not be traced. how many investors got money back from bernnie madof the largest scam in the world, none. the only hope is some jail time but with so much corruption in DR county he will get out of any trouble. All these posts give people hope but in realty everyone knows no money will be found or recovered. ricarda you are a expert at the scam, but someone will get to you and it may not be though legal ways but when you destroy lives someone will seek some justice, it happens all the time. hope you did not piss some one off who does follow the law like myself

[Joey123]

when you have Grant Thornton interviewing OVP people and also representatives of RM you begin to get a feel for the position. In terms of getting to the bottom of this, there is no single firm currently in a better position to ascertain the truth. GT have access to records from OVP. GT have the best chance of this and of recovering what assets they can. No law firm can begin to take a case with Sungolf without evidence of contracts. Even if contracts signed by just the investor to the agents is supposed to be sufficient to make a contract binding, there is no firm link that I can see to Sungolf. The only other people who might stand as good if not better chance is obviously the SFO.

What we have are very different stories from both sides. You can see this from the posting GT made,post 306, on this thread (and it is genuine). There are no signed agreeements between Sungolf and the Investors or between Sungolf and OVP (they alledge). Sungolf deny that OVP were agents. If you (other investors) think you can sue Sungolf then I just can't see how.

Whether OVP have been stitched up (or feel they have in there warped minds) or not, RM has made his position clear in that he received money for the EBCC site and refunded it in various ways. Proof of this is still outstanding.

I think it would be great if there could be a claim on Sungolf. I just cannot see existence of the evidence for such a claim. OVP had exclusivity over this site, i would say as they bought it effectively. But with no planning permission the deal was off. But the money was substantially spent as reported earlier.

let's form a united front though. If it can be done. But let a lawyer answer the above questions first. I know that Manilva Costa (I think) had claims recongnised against it despite signed contracts. Has anyone understood this and if it can be done in the same way with Sungolf. Also, is sungolf still trading or have substantial assets. What were the latest accounts filed and what was the financial position. Who is the owner of Sungolf? RM direct or another company or shareholders?

To me is seems like you need to:

1) Make a claim (test or group) in the Spanish legal system to see if a court will accept the contracts unilaterally signed by an investor is binding on Sungolf. Ok, I understand that's how it's done in Spain (very odd though and I feel should be changed so it is binding when both parties sign to avoid situations like this - and the Spanish lawyers should be pushing for this). To my layman's mind, due to this unilateral signing of contracts the burden of prooving the contractual position exisits is now on the purchaser;

2) Now we would need to present the case with the evidence to support it - which is what exactly?

Pesimistic or realisitc? I want justice and my money back. But what approach is best and why?

[Unregistered]

Does anyone have a lawyer that can give me some honest answers. I am beginning to think Flores here is just another puppet of CT and JK. Am I wrong or is it ethical for a solicitor to publish information that forms part of an investigation as he says. The sarcastic response to 409 is deserved, yet there are some valid points made. Could Flores just be looking clients to steal a bit more from, JK and CT certainly must think he can ring in a great set of suckers(Stuart Jones probably gave them the list of our names as well). Lets all talk to pi, he seems to be the much more sensible voice in all of this.

[Joey123]

Lawbird said they are working with GT to ascertain evidence of the position and will not have further information until later in the year. The last poster should not make such comments of the people behind this site. They are unfoundedand rude. PI wishes to get to the bottom of this, as do I. I have stated above that it it crucial to have evidence to bring a claim. Re-read my post above re my understanding. It is no different to Lawbird I beleive and any lawyer. No-one is going to be able to do ANYTHING without proof of the contractual relationship. no court will make a ruling if Sungolf can simply deny a contractual position and you cannot prove otherwise. Lawbird can not get this evidence without seeing paperwork from and speaking to the liquidators. Think about it please.

[Joey123]

poster 425. Please elaborate on why your lawyer said this and what country you are based in. Is is a gut feel comment or something more substantial? On what basis is the claim made. I don;t doubt it, but I would like to hear more. It just all "smells" if you know what I mean!

[aflores]

FOR CLARIFICATION PUPORSES

Hello,

When matters are dealt with through a Criminal Court it is because there is substantial evidence that a crime has been committed. In these instances it is not necessary to prove that you had a binding contract as what would need to be proved is that there was a concerted action to defraud the interests of people (1 or 1 thousand).

Unless cash is paid and no receipt given money always leaves a trace and that trace will invariably lead to the final recipients of the cash. That is, of course, if Mr. Miranda does not speak out before as he knows exactly where the money went and who his partners are.

Lawbird has not obtained information from GT nor is depending on GT in respect of any information we publish. GT is a private company specializing in auditing, management consulting and other financial tasks, is regulated by professional bodies and as such has limitations as to the information they can gather and the information they supply.

Lawbird is a Spanish law firm and is in contact with the Spanish authorities, who are ready to act as soon as there is a legal suit filed in Courts (Audiencia Nacional, given the multiple contacts with other jurisdictions), via the Spanish Prosecution Office (Fiscalia) or at the National Police.

This thread is now clearly being infiltrated by undesirable posters who only wish to bring confusion to the efforts made to clarify this massive scam, and unfortunately is now contaminated.

[Joey123]

Dear Antonio

thanks for the clarification. I do not see that your last comment is correct other than with reference the rediculous posting accusing you of being connected with CT. What is happening is that we are trying to ascertain the best course of action. Common sense suggest we need to have proof of RM's direct dealings (perhaps indirectly via OVPI) with the investors to take civil action for recovery of assets. However, your comments are understood - thank-you.

As you know, Grant Thornton are the appointed liquidators. You do not do them justice with your summary of them. They are of course auditors etc. as well, but not for OVPI. Their role in being appointed by the Official Receiver is to report on the conduct of the directors and quasi-directors and to trace and recover funds for distribution to the confirmed creditors.

We hope to have the support of the SFO in England at some point as well to investigage whether any criminal action is required and well as to assist with recovery of funds.

Yes, of course financial transactions can be traced and if you can take criminal action via the courts to build up a picture of the flow of funds then this will tell its own story. However, this is exactly what GT are going, is it not? GT were not the auditors of OVPI, they are specifically investaging the company and the financial transactions to enable a conclusion to be reached. I do not believe they would instruct criminal proceedings but certainly will report to the Department of Trade and Industrial (or maybe it's called something else now) who might.

The substance of the dealings between OVPI and Sungolf and currently in dispute as explained by GT. The last information is that Jon Kenyon-Smith had evidence to support OVPI's position. GT will report on this in due course if any information is provided by him.

If action against Sungolf and RM can be taken that might lead to recover of funds and if necessary other action as appropriate we all welcome and support this. You have explained that that the financial trail will have been made. Clearly investigations are underway and we wecome those and thank-you for any part played as we all want justice done.

Are you advising that the Spanish Prosecution Office (Fiscalia) or the National Police are invesiagating this matter? If so that is welcome news.

Don't misunderstand that, in general, the contributers to this site appreciate all efforts made. even if there are the random odd personal attacks/opinions.

[ifv]

This thread is now clearly being infiltrated by undesirable posters who only wish to bring confusion to the efforts made to clarify this massive scam, and unfortunately is now contaminated.

Having analised several post made by unregistered users, and the IP numbers they come from, I have to agree with aflores. It's all too obvious that this thread has been infiltrated by the same people who orchestrated all this mess.

[Joey123]

well that for me has said it all. I have made many, many postings. I am Joey123 on the EOS site. My postings as you know include many sensiible thoughts through anslysis of the current position. Legally and practically you may know more. I post as a layman and look to you for support and legal info- as documented. Ok, if, and I say if, you can gain access to bank accounts - which you will need to - you might be able to trace the flow of funds. But who will saction these? Are you sure you can be certain how to interpret these funds flow? there are 2 sides to every story Antiono! And I promise you, I only have one motive! and it is 100& NOT on the side of OVP!

All I have tried to achieve is to find a way forward and only Grant thornton have access to information that can be relied on to investigate this matter. Apart from the idiot that had a go at Antonio, all postiings have been aimed at finding a way forward to recover funds. be it action against RM or otherswise. I even defended Antonio (clearly a mistake).

if you are serious about investigating RM then you own me an apology. You say this forum has been compromised - nonsense! I have been following these forums for years (literaly). I have seen these forums (mostly EOS) be compromised by self interested OVP people.

I am never wasting my time on here again. Over to EOS. I have other avenues to persue anyway but will continue in persuit of justice.

[Joey123]

one more point IFA, can you tell us some answers to my queries in post 431, especially regarding

"Are you advising that the Spanish Prosecution Office (Fiscalia) or the National Police are invesiagating this matter? If so that is welcome news."

Otherwise, tell me, just how do you propose to advance this case in due course?

I've lost faith in you guys now, not that you will care!

Joey123

[Joey123]

i meant IVF!

[ifv]

Joey123, no one is suggesting you are part of OVP. Despite not writing under a registered user, your posts can be identified by your IP, and nothing you say points in that direction.

On the other hand, the poster who claims aflores is a 'another puppet of CT and JT' is the same person who is quick to post a link to the Punta Perla blog post which denies Ricardo Miranda has been jailed (no one said that), or who thinks using clients' deposits for investment purposes is OK.

Also, I think you are getting a bit mixed up here. I (IFV) am the administrator of belegal.com, which is not a law firm, but a legal portal. I am not a lawyer, and therefore, I cannot answer your questions. 'aflores' is a lawyer, and so is the user 'Lawbird Lawyer'. They will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have.

Having said this, if you wish to leave and go back to EOS, fair enough. You’ve been heavily promoting EOS and your recommended lawyers since your first post, which is ok with us. What I told you on my welcome post still stands:



I am trying to locate any client's of OVP who purchased on EBCC and used an OVP recommened solicitor other than Conveyancing Spain. Please send me a message on the eyeonspain.co.uk website. Anyone who did use Conveyancing Spain then Ignacio above would be able to help you with some advice. He is very knowledgable in the OVP/EBCC nightmare. If you did use a laywer other than Conveyanving Spain you can also contact Ignacio. I am trying to see if the work provided to me was below the standard required and if I can build a group to take legal advice/action with Ignacio's help if it was.
Marbella-Laywers - thank-you for your helpful advice. I hope my posting is okay with you.
Regards
Joey123


Hi Joey123. Welcome to our forums.

Sure you can post anything you wish provided it is in the best interest of those caught in this OVP mess. The ultimate goal of this site is to help people out, and anything which contributes to this goal is welcome.
Forming a group and joining forces is indeed an excellent idea. Good luck!



Regards

[Unregistered]

To all the clients and purchasers of properties from OVPI (Ocean Vew Properties International) and OVP, S.L. (Ocean Vew Properties S.L.) in the project, Estepona Beach and Country Club,

Dear sirs, before the quantity of falsities y ill-willed statements con total or partial manipulations of reports, writings, etc, we are for the first time obliged to issue this communication in order to provide the true and honest information.

Facts:
1-. OVPI and OVP, S.L. purchased from SG (Sungolf Desarrollo Inmobiliario) all the future units that could be built in the land that had been acquired by SG, said land at the time of deed formalization was not formalized at fault of the sellers, causing a lawsuit by Sungolf against them that is currently active.

2-. OVPI and OVP, S.L., now as owners of the future units designed the entire project just as they wanted it (units, dimensions, spaces, areas, layouts, etc).

3-. Fixed prices per unit were established for the sale between SG and OVP, €170.000 for two-bedroom units and €201.000 for three bedrooms units. These were the prices for the sale of SG to OVP. The average sale price for resale by OVP was up to €350.000 for two-bedroom units and €410.000 for three bedrooms.

4-. OVP did business as owner that had purchased units to be built and they resold them earning an average benefit of 100%. OVP was never an agent of Sungolf. An agent never earns 100% benefit of a development but instead a commission of 5, 6, 7%. Y asÃ* desde un primer momento se estableció que ese era su forma de operar y su negocio en esta operación.

5-. To formalize the operation, OVP made monthly deposits towards the development of the project, totaling 12 million Euros that were received by Sungolf. Sungolf having returned the whole of this amount by way of various transfers made to OVPI, OVP, S.L. through the administrator and partner, Sean Woodhall. The documentation showing all these transfers was sent to Grant Thornton on November 18, 2009.

6-. OVP re-sold all the properties with a benefit of approximately 100% the price they purchased them at from SG.


7-.Upon returning 100% of the funds from SG to OVP, they issued the corresponding “receipt� stating have received the full amounts that had been advanced to SG and declared to have nothing to claim in any form against SG.
Said document was found by Grant Thornton signed by the administrator and principal partner of OVP. This document proves without a doubt that SG returned from the beginning and without a problem all the money received towards the purchase.
One cannot negate the evidence of said confirmed document which is irrefutable proof of the refund of money by SG.

Essential points:

1-. Sungolf never had anything to do with sale transactions of apartments with anyone except OVP, S.L. or OVPI.
SG never had any relationship with any client of OVP, nor written nor verbal, being completely unaware of any particular client.

2-. OVP received 34 million from their clients; SG only received 12 towards the purchase from OVP. SG has accredited the refund of the 12 million; it is solely and exclusively the partners and administrators of OVP that are responsible in returning the amounts they have appropriated and now try to deny, although it is quite evident.



Additionally, what all should know:

1-. Mr. John Kenyon-Smith has tried during the last 18 months to illegally pressure Mr. Ricardo Miranda, President of SG, with the intent of avoiding his responsibility to all the clients of OVP for not being able to return the amounts that OVP received and now does not have.

2-. The reason behind the above point, apart from that already explained, is the negation by SG in having any type of contact with Mr. Kenyon-Smith, Colin Thomas and other ex-collaborators of OVP due to them being in no way trustworthy, just as the administrator in Spain, Mr. Sean Woodhall.


3-. The gentlemen of OVP have permanently tried by all means to harm the image of both Mr. Miranda and the companies he represents.


4-. In regards to Punta Perla, which has been mentioned and they have tried to create a bad image and distort reality. It is a development that has the land in ownership, appraised at this moment in much more than the current obligations; it has all the permits and authorizations and despite the international crisis, work has begun.


5-. All the companies of the group are very detail oriented in complying with all their legal obligations.


6-. Regarding the recent events referring to Mr. Miranda and mentioned in a factious manner without giving clarifying explanations, we have left clear in a communication that can be found in the webpage of the project (http://press.puntaperla.com), that said situation is due to a conflict with presumed delinquents that have already been in prison, such as Carlos Sánchez and Andres Liétor, whom in this moment have against them a request of the special prosecutor against corruption and organized crime, Málaga, before the court, for 22 years of prison for the crimes of bribery (of government officials), continuous fraud, money laundering, embezzlement of public funds. (http://www.elpais.com/elpaismedia/ultimahora/media/201006/17/espana/20100617elpepunac_4_Pes_PDF.pdf, véase págs. 147, 148 y 149).


7-. The gentlemen mentioned above sold part of the lands, deceiving the company of Punta Perla given that the said lands did not have the authorizations nor permits and many of them were found to be in litigation. Punta Perla had to confront the debts incurred of these lands, resolver the litigation, and carry out the necessary work to be granted the authorizations and approvals needed. Punta Perla has criminal charges against the mentioned subjects.


8-. These men have tried from the beginning of the project, as supposed delinquents, to discredit the project and try with malicious intent to ensure that it fails.


9-. The preventive methods that have resulted in the declaration of Mr. Miranda being in contempt have been carried out due to the acts of these men with the only objective being to create a false and negative image not only of his person but also the project. Here we refer back to the communication in our web page mentioned in point 6.


10-. During the last three years, Mr. Miranda, and the companies he represents have placed criminal charges against these men as well as civil proceedings in which the company has always won.


11-. Express the total integrity not only of our president but also the companies he represents, the team of people, employees, collaborating companies, etc, that work daily to make this project a reality despite the fraudulent and criminal acts of others to deceive and confuse the facts.


12-. We reserve the right to full legal action resulting from the misrepresentations and declarations expressed against Mr. Miranda, the companies he represents, preparing the appropriate criminal actions or that are necessary in the good name 0both of the people and the companies that have been named.�

[Unregistered]

Above post released and made by the Sungolf Legal Team

[Joey123]

Thank-you for this clarifcation. I have for some time had great doubts that OVP were agents for Sungolf. If the legal team for Sungolf can please print their name, address and contact numbers then this will help. This message makes total sense, but to authenticate it we need your name, address and contract numbers.

If the mess on EBCC was 100% caused by OVP then with your help this will establish the position and lay this matter to rest. Constant speculation is damaging. If RM and Sungolf has been represented by members of OVP can you help with evidence to support this?

My gut feel of the set up was just as you say.

The investors are looking for angles. One of which is to sue the developer. This is the way the set up was presented to us, as you know, Sungolf were the developers and OVP the agents for them. Too many thigs (ok, in hindsight) did not support this.

Subject to the legal Team providing their details, I think, sadly we are getting closer to the truth in that OVP were probably not agents but principles.

Therefore, is seems that there is a real possibility that the contracts may have been false.

This remains with Grant Thornton still to obtain evidence from Sungolf's legal representatives and those for JKS/OVP.

There must be evidence to support this. I cannot believe such a deal would be undocumented?

Adminstrator - cheers for your repsonse - this thread may indead prove useful

[Joey123]

Dear Adminsitrator

I see the confusion now. In my persuit of justice for my loss of funds I have had to find a group of like minded investors in exactly the same position as me and to form a group so I had to put requests out amonst other things. Where other solicitors were used then I was prepared to point them in the direction of Ignacio who was already advancing enquiries from investors. With people spread all over if they found the site at least it might give them an angle for consderation and if someone has built up experience this will benefit them. I am not promoting any law firm.

References were made to investigtions against RM (if I understood that). I was asking if there was substance to them. I had no reply.

We have suffered terribly in this and if OVP have completely stitched us up and there was no direct link with Sungolf, if this is establised, there is possible no recourse against Sungolf it would seem. It would vindicate Sungolf too.

These forums are excellent for digging around and hopefully getting information. if it were not for the form we would not have had the response above. If the position with the "Legal Team" is firmed up and GT are satisfied at some point of the legal position regarding agency or principle, we will have our answer. It is a very important point, the outcome of which will shape the direction of any legal action.

Thanks for the forum. I will keep using it (thank-you). I'm not trying to promote any other forum against this, they have all been equally helpful. I would have not got the point I am at if it were not for both forums.

Regards
Joey123

[Joey123]

Actually, with the information presented to GT and the above post, for my purposes, however, I hope this information is now sufficient for my solicitor to do what is needed.

Adminstrator - thanks for the resource - it has been helpful.

Whatever the final truth is, we may one day know. I do know never to invest in property I can't see and touch and what a painful lesson that was.

Let's hope PP gets built and all problems are overcome.

And of course, any wrong doers, we live in hope justice will be served.

Hopefully, I can put this sorry side of my life behind me. It has caused the most dreadful problems, but I suppose, I should not have been taken in by it all!

Good luck all!

Joey123

[Unregistered]

I am still waiting to hear the outcome if any of this episode
Purchase penthouse at Guadlope asked for my money back as it was beyond building time by years
was told that the property was sold but never received my money. Was told could not have my money until the building was completed and passed , this went on for years .
Then one day was sent a email that I had lost my deposit as the purchasers have pulled out . Not long after that I had read it was all a scam. Have sent all the forms to the liquidators and have not heard anything oly a short note saying that a site will be made on the internet for updates . Where?
Denise Bannell
Denise.bannell@gmail.com

[Joey123]

Denise

You need to contact Grant Thornton. You have their details as you sent in the info to register your claim. They send out updates periodically as said above. If your claim is against OVP that is where your info will come from. If is against a developer that will be another matter. The contact details above above also. I dont think they ever set up a website with updates. Whatever anyone at OVP said to you have have been untrue and playing for time. they were experts at this.

If you are a genuine creditor of OVP you will be in the queue for a payout as with the rest of us.

It sounds like you need an independent solicitor to advise where you claim lies. It sounds like it is not straight forward. You need to see what action you can take and who it would be against. There may be a forum for this development on the Eye On Spain site (sorry site adminstrator) that might put you in touch with people in the same situation or there might be some info that helps you.

Ignacio at Brethertons would have a quick chat to try to inform you. He is very helpful. Google it

[Unregistered]

Regarding post (430) by Antonio Flores, some clarification would be helpful. If not collaborating with GT, on what basis are you gathering information?

Your statement regarding action in Criminal Court, is this really possible in a situation such as ours, without signed contracts.

Until now, every solicitor I have consulted indicates that the lack of a signed contract makes any case questionable. Can we move forward with transfers of the funds and what would be necessary to show the concerted action.

[Unregistered]

How long are we going to discuss here amongst ourselves. Where is the solid proof from Sungolf that Oceanview purchased the development. A war of words between Oceanview and Sungolf gets us nowhere near getting our money back. I would like to hear more about the findings of the investigation of Grant Thornton and if the SFO or anyone is going to do anything.
Has Miranda been arrested yet? Does anyone know how to track him down.

[Unregistered]

Dear clients, investors, friends and other interested parties,

Today, August 13th, 2010, Mr. Miranda, back in the Dominican Republic, presented himself before the corresponding court, whereby the Judge, upon being presented with the proper legal evidence, immediately cleared Mr. Miranda of all allegations charges regarding contempt of court, and lifting all other issue’s presented.

This is one more obstacle overcome on the long road towards developing the “foremost community resort in the Caribbean�!! No matter what is brought upon us we shall succeed in building the resort we all dream of, Mr. Miranda does not give up, ever, and as you can understand from this and all of his actions he will see the project built to completion.

This will put an end to an incredible press montage organized by professional delinquents, who, through these types of premeditated actions, try to take advantage and benefit by diverting attention away from their own personal actions and responsibilities before the law.

The Punta Perla Legal Team will press charges and prosecute all parties that intentionally tried and or try to harm and damage the projects reputation and that of it’s developers. We will pursue this and all court cases diligently, always defending the reputation of Punta Perla.

Regards,

Punta Perla Legal Team

[Joey123]

Poster above bar one asks where is the proof OVP purchased the development from Sungolf. That is the big question. Were they agents or principles in the transaction? Sungolf's posting makes more sense to me than anything I have ever got from OVP.

A copy of a signed contract between Sungolf and OVP would lay this matter to rest.

[Unregistered]

The original arrest warrant from August 3rd 2010 by the Santo Domingo Court in the Dominican Republic on Ricardo Miranda Miret, in regards to Punta Perla is now posted directly on his own name www.RicardoMirandaMiret.com

This arrest warrant also includes the Punta Perla land, bank accounts and other valuables in his name or the name of Paraiso Tropical.

Finally the truth will come out and unfortunately hundreds of small investors stands lose their money!

It should now be clear that the Punta Perla project should never have had the Bentley Awards, neither the support of HRH Prince Albert of Monaco nor the President of the Dominican Republic Leonel Fernandez.

Ricardo Miranda Miret have defrauded not only investors in the Dominican Republic, but also in Spain and Morocco! More than six hundred investors has lost an average of USD 100,000 or a total of over USD 60 Million in his three fantasy projects. Where is the money??

Dominican Watchdog was the first whistleblower on the Punta Perla project one year ago. The reason was that all the money taken by real estate agents and Ricardo Miranda was never secured on escrow accounts to protect the investors.

Dominican Republic is full of semi-professional real estate agents who will say anything to their clients for a quick buck! Punta Perla proves that estate agents in the Dominican Republic needs to be accredited and insured in the future. They must be forced to protect clients deposits on escrow accounts or they should be held personally responsible!

Any further propaganda or undocumented spin from Ben Potter's forum, Mark Andrews or related real estate agents about Punta Perla will be posted on the Ricardo Miranda Miret domain with special comments to warn investors.

We can either say that the photo with HRH Prince Albert of Monaco and Leonel Fernandez promoting Punta Perla was a great mistake of personal judgment from two such important persons, or we can assume that they where paid very well this marketing event which made it possible to defraud even more investors into Punta Perla.

original post in: http://puntaperla.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/the-original-arrest-warrant-on-ricardo-miranda-miret-is-now-online/

[Unregistered]

Dear Mr Ricardo Miranda, the Sungolf Legal team and the Punta Perla Legal team

My name is Beverly Goddard,


Whilst I note all your comments in relation to Estepona beach and Ocean View and from what you are saying you are completely faultless in this situation and it is all Ocean View’s fault.

In relation to Punta Perla judges in the Dominican have got it wrong and your also being pursued by deliquence as you state it seems that you that your portrayal of being completely innocent in all these matters I would love to agree with.

BUT

My dear Mr Miranda, Sungolf, Punta Perla Legal and no doubt in the future Unico Legal team (as you are all as one) I invested 60000 Euros in buying 2 properties from you to Tafendna Bay, Morocco and together with (what I gather as) another 50 investors payed their money directly to you at Unico…

…Which is estimated at over 3 million euros.

You and your Spanish office know me well because for over 12 months I have been asking for this money back.

The reason for you not returning my money is that you keep saying the development is happening but the problem lies with the Moroccan government. But rather than do the correct and decent thing which is returning my money to me you keep spinning out these stories. You have now forced me to use the services of a lawyer at my expense which I’m actually grateful to you for because I should of done this on day one. I have discovered though utilising the services of this lawyer, is that Unico owns no land in Essouira, which has been confirmed by not only the Governor of Essouira but also the relevant Moroccan authorities. I also am aware that the MD you have operating on your behalf in Morocco and Adrian Canas has also confirmed that there is no land to build this project on and that his employment if it has not already been ceased will be ceased shortly because he has no work to do.

So my question to you Mr Ricardo Miranda, President of Sungolf and Punta Perla (what a wonderful title) is why you have not returned my monies to me and to the other investors who paid money directly to you, in this instance. We all have a signed contracts with your signature on.

So forgive my scepticism at the innocence you wish to portray but I do not believe you. I look forward to the return of my monies.

Beverly Goddard
E-mail- Beverley dot goddard 65 at gmail dot com
(as this is my first post I had to spell out my Email Address)
Phone-07583753750

P.S
If people are interested I will keep you updated on my and others who invested in Tafedna bay updated but alas I feel we’re all heading the same way.

[Joey123]

Dear Beverly

Sorry to hear of this. As a EBCC investor, may I ask what the paper trail was?

Was direct with Unico you dealt and who through? This was basically the same set up as OVP once they had been rumbled. Were ontracts issued by ex-OVP personnel (via the newly formed) Unico - this one:

UNICO INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENTS LIMITED
SUITE B, 29 HARLEY STREET
LONDON
W1G 9QR
Company No. 06247923


Status: Active - Proposal to Strike off
Date of Incorporation: 15/05/2007

1) Who issued you with a contract:
2) Was is signed by anyone other than yourself (developer);
3) Who did your funds go to?
4) What has been said since?

I was stitched up on EBCC.

Joey123

[Joey123]

ps - the striking off application has been suspensed - what what reason I don't know. But if you dealt with this company you should ask for it to be investigated - speak with Companies House in Cardiff. It might be something Grant Thornton has a hand in.

[Unregistered]

A couple of points....

1) Nobody knows if Colin Thomas is guilty of anything. He may of been duped just as you "investors" think you were!

2) All "investors" should understand that when they invest they invest in a risk....

3) The "Investors" are winging now because they did not make the "quick buck" they thought they would??????? shame!!!!

4) Many investors ....invested and do not have document proof as they invested money that they themselves did not want traced......SHAME...!!! They are as guilty as anyone else involved in the property scheme. Who told them that property investment off plan was without risk..........they ignored the risk due to greed and the possible huge return.....not Colins fault!!!! Why are all the bankers not being chased who lost millions with the knowledge of the government and lax controls by those placed in authority to oversee????

5) Who is chasing the dis-honest banking twats who caused so many businesses to falter and UK properties to be lost. Nobody will do that as you can not get money out of a bank owned by the government...that was a well planned and far bigger scam than anything Ocean View done.

6) Its the UK government and the shit head bankers that got everyone into this mess!!!!! The government would rather pay some cow with 11...12 children 1000's in benefits than help one small business struggling.

Stop winging......you invested with the knowledge that you may lose.....if you thought anything was guaranteed you are a moron!!!!!

[Unregistered]

This has aged michelle about 20 years in the last 12 months

[Unregistered]

That's ok, she can use some of the millions of pounds that her partner has taken through ocean view properties and get herself a facelift! !
What a ridiculous statement to make, I couldn't care less!

Innocent people have lost their homes, become divorced and even suffered miscarriages because of the stress that has been caused by this crime.

Also the the poster above who made 6 stupid comments, the message has been sent to Grant Thornton and Staff police. They will be very interested in discussing with you I am sure. Your IP address is interesting to say the least!
You are obviously very uneducated, people who invest in shares etc, have an understanding that you could lose of funds. It's not quite the same when buying a holiday home.

[Unregistered]

lol

Why would the police be interested in my comments. Your reply shows the level of mental competence that you have.......you were clearly not bright enough to understand the risk of a investment.

You invested in property that you deemed would make you money....call it a holiday home or whatever.

Where banks in the UK lost millions for investors....why are they not running to the police to have it sorted....because they knew the risk. Though in the banks issue........the banks knew that they were guilty of bad management.

(You are obviously very uneducated, people who invest in shares) Why would you say only uneducated invest in shares? Again your knowledge of making money and making good investments is questionable. Clearly based on your reply you have no financial idea!

Sorry mate...but you get what you deserve and now you want to cry about it?

[Joey123]

These postings above cannot really be for real? Since when is an agreeement to hold money in a secure "client" bank account pending a build licence (backed by a so called theft insurance) been taking a gamble. We certainly should have been advised the risk is too great to proceed.

All represenations were made on the basis of the deposit money being secure. In the end the money disappeared. It was taking money by deception, no more, no less. Albeit, a clever bit of disception

[Joey123]

why would this age someone unless they are very concerned they might be implicted in this? Sweating bucket loads I hope, unless cruely involved with the people that swindled us lot.

The comments are so absurd. Most money was from savings or re-mortgage money. If known otherwise, then you have spent criminal money knowingly. You have admitted MONEY LAUNDERING - ha ha - I hope your IP address can be used to trace you!

I do hope all the OVP head crooks are severly punished for this

[Unregistered]

If you all made these investments in property....where are the solicitors that you used to transfer the property and to make sure your investment was safe and legal?

Many of you did not use a Solicitor due to:

...thinking what a wonderful idea you will make loads of money and not worry about the risk.

...Or did you think the idea was too good to be true and then did not worry about the legal side of the deal.

Either way its your fault.....and should stop winging!!

Where are the solicitors....why are you not talking to them and asking them how bad the advise was......why did they allow the money to be transferred.......would you of acted in the same way if you bought a UK property???

do you see the Beckhams going to court as they lost millions in a Dubai property deal....No....as they invested and the world financial markets changed .....companies went under and they lost money.

where is Sean W in all this.....did his plane crash?

[Unregistered]

........just to add....A plane crashed.....was he on it?

You have no idea what happened but are happy to blame Colin T

Twats!

[Unregistered]

How will it help to track my IP address you cabbage. I blog is set up to state your point of view. I was not involved in Ocean View....never said I was.....but I do know Colin and know he is not guilty of anything .....

You XXX XXX are looking for anyone to take the blame for your useless money management skills. If you re-finance a UK property to make a investment you are XXXX .....that would be the view of any Financial Advisor!

I am involved with the Police and they are doing a good job to sort out the crap you got yourself into...cos you thought you "had the money to waste"...........

[Joey123]

well, you're clearly some XXXX warped in making postings which purely wind up people

Colin Thomes owned OVP. he took a lot of money from the company. Perhaps nothing wrong in that - he did manage to extract dividends by engineeering profits to do so but again, allowed. the extravagances of OVP were well known. Funding withdrawals and lavish lifestyles came in part from money received from investors in the EBCC project. One which was going to be built by Sungolf as developer per the contract. the validity of which is currently in doubt.

OVP said Sungolf was the developer and we were contracting with Sungolf and that the investors were buying the property from them. the deposit money gone from the account in which it was to be held (stolen in my mind) and we have no definate link to the developer as they deny the version of events OVP claim were the case and we have no evidence to say otherwise.

If you had nothing to do with OVP, why are you involved with the Police? Tell Colin then to come forward with evidence OVP were appointed as agents for Sungolf. Let him speak for himself and organise a meeting of investors. He won't though. Tell the story as it is. If he blames Ricardo for stitching him up then provide the evidence.

What was Bob Parkes role? A pawn in ther lies or part of it. Give us evidence of OVP's role as agents for Sungolf then tell us how the fuck our money ended up missing pressumed stolen? We have dealt with Stuart Jones trying to fob us off. It was peddled as money held in a secure account. It was a big fat lie! Simple! A lie!

Your answer is to say not to believe all we are told and that we greedily investined in off-plan property hoping to make a buck - you arsehole! That is not the case.

Of course the market turned. So what? There was no planning permission and a constant stream of lies peddled around EBCC to delay the enevitable of OVP being caught out.

Our money was ontained through deception. if not give it back. Plain and simple.

Please reply sensible, if you can!

[Unregistered]

Cant spell cant invest seems to be the issue?

Police get involved in many cases ....is Ocean View the only case....Involved in your little mind means negative.....that is the problem with all you people who are happy to blame anyone but yourself!!

Even when ex staff mention something on this blog you blame them....and say they are at fault!!

The voice of reason

[Unregistered]

Last edited by ifv;....no need to be rude they say????? lol

lol.....only the comments added "for" Ocean View get edited....the ones against Ocean View do not!!!!

The bloggers against OV can swear and say what they want to!!

Make it fair guys....

[Joey123]

ok, the floor is yours .... what happened then? No rambling non-sense - just the truth?

1) Were OVP agents for Sungolf and can you prove it?
2) If the deposit money was to be kept seperate from OVP funds and did not form part of their "assets" - where is it now OVP are in compulsory liquidatation? GT can;t trace it?
3) Can OVP return it and if not why not and if not why do you think it is not returnable when it was suposed to have been kept separate?

[Joey123]

ps - OVP stole my money and were theiving, lying scum!

[ifv]

Last edited by ifv;....no need to be rude they say????? lol

lol.....only the comments added "for" Ocean View get edited....the ones against Ocean View do not!!!!

The bloggers against OV can swear and say what they want to!!

Make it fair guys....

I'm not going to tolerate more of your nonsense, whoever you are. Be constructive or leave the forum . Or else I will ban you.

Regards

[Unregistered]

sorry I am not here to help you...

I was just stating my point of view and feelings on the matter. I am very happy having invested in UK property and shares! always using a legal guy to check all out....do the same in the future.

I was generally stating that CT may not be at fault and that investments generally carry risk. Never intended or wanted to HELP anyone as I have better things to do.

you made the time to invest...make the time to sort it.

the voice of reason!

[Joey123]

as investors, we know OVP lied. We were told lie after lie. WE suffer. We risked our money with off-plan investment in property. We used OVP recommended lawyers (some of us) - stupidy I know. And we will be looking at their work.

However, many a representative from OVP assured us of the "transparancy" regarding deposits, that it was safe in a secure account.

I am sure you are an idiot winding people up, but I do hope if not, you get what's coming.

Colin Thomas owned OVP. . Maybe he was not an "official director" - but he was part of OVP. The company that stole from hundreds of people.

You are pathetic in your postings and defence of the people behind that company. The ringleaders will hopefully be prosecuted and punished.

[Joey123]

ban them please - an absolute idiot who knows nothing about what OVP did

[Unregistered]

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/eiir/IIRCaseIndivDetail.asp?CaseId=42505288&IndivNo=1&Court=MCC&OfficeID=81&CaseType=B

For those of you that are not aware, Colin Thomas was made bankrupt on 10 June 2010.

According to my source, Nick Wood of Grant Thornton was appointed trustee in bankruptcy which will only assist GT in their OVPI enquiries.

Another step forward.

Hopefully any funds paid away from OVPI to Colin Thomas can be traced into assets and realised for the benefit of the OVPI creditors.

[Unregistered]

Further to my post above, I have spoke to Samantha Locke at GT on a regular basis.

From what I have gathered and interpreted of our conversations, GT are pressing on with the claim against OVPI directors, employees and connected third parties.

Be aware that the claim is not likely to be settled or enforced in the upcoming months. GT will be working hard with their lawyers to ensure that the necessary proof is in place should the defendants choose to argue against the claim.

However, should GT be successful in the claim, the following will happen:

- Connected third parties and employees will be made bankrupt should they not be able to pay back the funds that they received from OVPI. I'm sure GT will work hard to be appointed as trustees in bankruptcy so that they continue their forensic investigation (as with Colin Thomas' bankruptcy).

- Connected third parties may be liquidated if they are unable to pay back the funds. This is likely to happen as most of the third parties are / were owned by Colin Thomas, Jon Kenyon Smith or Dave Stewart. According to Companies' House, most of these companies do not have any liquid (or tangible) assets on their books. However, the liquidation of these companies will still benefit the OVPI creditors because it will complete the picture for GT and allow them to see where funds have been paid.

The whole Sungolf / Ricardo Miranda issue will not be solved in the next year or two. It will take alot of time for this to be cleared up, however, from GT's press release which was enclosed in our latest correspondence, it appears that they are making good progress with this. Im sure GT & their lawyers are still in contact with Miranda's lawyers and discussing whether an amicable resolution can be found. This is very doubtful but I'm sure GT will be compiling whatever evidence they have on Sungolf and passing this onto their lawyers to see if there is any case to be brought.

I have been monitoring this forum for some time. A number of creditors have made excellent contributions with valuable information.

For now, I believe it is best to wait for GT's next correspondence and continue to pursue any private action should you wish.

[Joey123]

Thank-you for a most informative & welcome update. I am pleased to hear GT are doing well

[Joey123]

Does anyone know about this? OVP are "gone". Is Unico alive? As this was "so close" to getting approval for the build licence, surely this must still exist? This was supposed to be a "Unico/OVP" project. Anyone know anything? Was/is this real?

[Unregistered]

Further to my post above, I have spoke to Samantha Locke at GT on a regular basis.

From what I have gathered and interpreted of our conversations, GT are pressing on with the claim against OVPI directors, employees and connected third parties.

Be aware that the claim is not likely to be settled or enforced in the upcoming months. GT will be working hard with their lawyers to ensure that the necessary proof is in place should the defendants choose to argue against the claim.

However, should GT be successful in the claim, the following will happen:

- Connected third parties and employees will be made bankrupt should they not be able to pay back the funds that they received from OVPI. I'm sure GT will work hard to be appointed as trustees in bankruptcy so that they continue their forensic investigation (as with Colin Thomas' bankruptcy).

- Connected third parties may be liquidated if they are unable to pay back the funds. This is likely to happen as most of the third parties are / were owned by Colin Thomas, Jon Kenyon Smith or Dave Stewart. According to Companies' House, most of these companies do not have any liquid (or tangible) assets on their books. However, the liquidation of these companies will still benefit the OVPI creditors because it will complete the picture for GT and allow them to see where funds have been paid.

The whole Sungolf / Ricardo Miranda issue will not be solved in the next year or two. It will take alot of time for this to be cleared up, however, from GT's press release which was enclosed in our latest correspondence, it appears that they are making good progress with this. Im sure GT & their lawyers are still in contact with Miranda's lawyers and discussing whether an amicable resolution can be found. This is very doubtful but I'm sure GT will be compiling whatever evidence they have on Sungolf and passing this onto their lawyers to see if there is any case to be brought.

I have been monitoring this forum for some time. A number of creditors have made excellent contributions with valuable information.

For now, I believe it is best to wait for GT's next correspondence and continue to pursue any private action should you wish.
It is very good news to hear that there will be action taken against the various agents etc. Whilst there has been an understandable focus on the big fish behind the scam, a lot of there agents must have profited from the theft and then appeared to be innocently implicated, Hopefully GT will trace any profits made by these individuals

[Unregistered]

It is very good news to hear that there will be action taken against the various agents etc. Whilst there has been an understandable focus on the big fish behind the scam, a lot of there agents must have profited from the theft and then appeared to be innocently implicated, Hopefully GT will trace any profits made by these individuals

Yes I imagine that GT will be looking at many of the individuals connected to OVPI. However, I believe they will have difficulty recovering any funds that the agents made as most of these were not aware of the financial difficulties that OVPI were suffering.

I believe for these funds to be recovered then the individual would need to be a connected party who knew that it was not in OVPI's best interest's to pay money out of the company when it was insolvent.

Therefore I believe that these funds will not be recovered.

[Joey123]

i think you are all missing the point here. This set up was from the top. OVPI were selling the properties "as agents for the developer". However, it appears they were really selling them for themselves. OVPI alone knew of this. They set up people further down the chain to peddle the lies. OVPI should never have received any money from the investors. There was no confirmed land or build licence. Read the story from Sungolf - ok, maybe there are some doubts, but I would say OVPI did agree to buy all of the units and sell them at a massive mark up and profit, but this collapsed when the build licence was not granted and by then much of the deposit mony was spent and could not be returned.

Only the head guys would have known about this. They told story after story about the refunds, the safety of the money etc etc for a long time until the collapse. The evidence of this is know as the money is not in the secure account, as promised, and confirmed by GT.

I find it disappointing that there is no SFO case yet - my money was stolen by the people at OVP who lied to obtain it. We continue to be let down by the authorities. However, if GT can make them penniless that makes me feel better, but ultimately, I would like the truth to be told in court.

[Unregistered]

Dear Joey123

Thanks for your interest in my post, sorry I haven’t responded I’ve been away.

Having read the contents of this blog and eye on Spain, what a horrendous mess!

In answer to your questions, myself and my late husband were part of an internet based property investment club which is no longer trading. We had experienced some successes with them in buying property in the UK and we were looking for an overseas investment with the minimal investment possible.

1) In answering your first question, the contract came directly from my agent Sadia properties.

2) Extracted directly from my signed contract it states

‘the contract is between Unico International Developments, SL registered to do business in Spain under registration number B85082923, registered with the Trade register in Madrid whose business address is ‘Glorieta de Ruben Dario 3, 4̊ izquierda, 28010 Madrid, Spain’ which is represented by Mr Ricardo Miranda, with Spanish DNI number 02702065W on behalf of its wholly owned subsidiary Unico Tourisme Development SARL a limited company (SARL) registered to do business in Morocco under tax registration number 1107666, registered with the trade register in Casablanca, Morocco whose business address is ’30, Avenue des F.A.R., 7̊
Etage, 21 000-Casablanca, Morocco’

3) My money of 60000 Euros was paid directly to Unico International Developments SL in Spain.

4) In response to your question ‘what has been said since?’ Basically I received a copy of the signed contract and lots of spin from the Madrid office mostly from Eva Stores that the delay for the start of the construction lies with the Moroccan government, but as I posted before because Unico-Ricardo Miranda have not given me a refund they have forced me to use the services of a law firm which has enabled me to cut through all the spin and get to the truth which is that the Moroccan government have confirmed to my lawyer that there is no land owned by Unico which they have in writing and there is no project happening in Tafedna Bay.

In fact the MD who worked for Unico Tourism developments, Adrian Canas is on the verge of leaving because there is absolutely nothing for him to do and he has confirmed that there is no project going ahead.

So not wanting to get in between your battles and Ocean View but in this instance to me it is very clearly Ricardo Miranda that has deceived over 50 people and over 3 million Euros of people’s hard earned money so my take on him is maybe different to yours because he has quite clearly defrauded us.

My lawyers have asked that I do not reveal too much of the case that is pending. But to me the Spanish office in Madrid is quite clearly the same address for Estepona Beach, Punta Perla and Tafedna bay so it looks to me like this is the hub of the deceit for all three developments and Ricardo Miranda is at the hub of this deceit.

Also the same people seem to be responding to us all on all 3 developments; Eva Stores, Shannon Cadogan and Javier Esponsa. I think that is all the people working in his office, which no doubt make up the Sungolf legal team, Punta Perla Legal Team and the Unico Legal team which so helpfully posted earlier on this website.

Message to the Sungolf Legal Team: can you ask the Unico Legal team to refund mine and 49 other peoples money on this development which has been confirmed in writing by the Moroccan government but is not going ahead. And why would Adrian Canas your MD also confirm this.

Please refund my money as you have clearly mislead me and others as there is no project. Why would such a wealthy and respectful developer who seems to suffer such bad luck with your previous developments in Estepona Beach and that you’re currently experiencing in Punta Perla keep my money. I demand my money back it is not yours it is mine. Is it that you’ve spent it where you shouldn’t have? This would be mis-appropriation of funds which is a criminal offence both in the UK and Spain.


Yours Sincerely

Beverley Goddard

Contact-07583753750

[Joey123]

Hi Beverley

1) What have Sadia Properties got to say about your position and who were they dealing with? Was OVPI involved?
2) Have you found out who owned UID SL in Spain?
3) At least you have apparently acknowdgement that RM's company ( if it is) is responsible for this project,

All very interesting.

I hope your lawyers can get somewhere. With a signed contract this must help.

Sorry I am of no help

Joey123

[Unregistered]

beverly you get it, he scamed you, me and many other people and he still goes free, lost quarter of million dollars in punta perla, when will someone take him down, where is the justice. the money is gone forever just like maddof investors lost it all. hope he dies a slow painful death, can never trust anyone or the justice system they do nothing

[Unregistered]

To be exact there are 500 people who have bought property on punta perla x $150,000 per client =$75.000,000.
300 plus on estepona beach x£100,OOO =£30,000,000
50 people on morocco =£3,000,000
AND HE HAS BUILT NOTHING
WHAT MUGS WE ALL ARE WHY CANT WE ALL GET TOGETHER




RICARDO MIRANDA NOT LONG KNOW

[Unregistered]

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/eiir/IIRCaseIndivDetail.asp?CaseId=42505288&IndivNo=1&Court=MCC&OfficeID=81&CaseType=B

For those of you that are not aware, Colin Thomas was made bankrupt on 10 June 2010.

According to my source, Nick Wood of Grant Thornton was appointed trustee in bankruptcy which will only assist GT in their OVPI enquiries.

Another step forward.

Hopefully any funds paid away from OVPI to Colin Thomas can be traced into assets and realised for the benefit of the OVPI creditors.

So does that mean that maybe I will get some of my money back.
I was told that my property had been sold to another client and I waited years for my deposit for years and then told a couple of days before the bankrupcy that the clients had pulled out and I had lost my deposit , I think now that there was never another client .

[Joey123]

that was a common thyme - I think a number of people were told that their property had been resold - they could keep people hanging on for years - report the full story to Staffordshire Police - it may help.

Potentially, there might be some hope of a small repayment, after the liquidators substantial fees (it is a big case), I guess. Make sure you are registered with GT as a "creditor"

[Unregistered]

Hi Joey,

In response to your last posting my dealings were direct with Sadia properties a guy called Amrit Khan based in Brighton with an office in Tangia, Morocco. But they’ve now ceased trading.

Unico International developments SL is owned by Ricardo Miranda, and yes we have complete information that Ricardo Miranda is 100% responsible for this project and interesting to see the posting below yours Joey is from a client on Punta Perla who equally holds Ricardo Miranda responsible for the loss of their money.

I’ve had a chance now to look at other associated websites namely singing pig and the Dominican watchdog and it looks very clear to me that Ricardo Miranda is 100% behind all our problems on these 3 developments.

The action my lawyers are taking is for the recovery of my money from Unico in Spain because it is the developer Ricardo Miranda who is responsible and it is where my money went.

In my opinion, this money was then channelled to support his development Punta Perla in the Caribbean where clearly he has a lot of problems. He looks like a very clever man who uses lots of people to be principal communicators on his behalf he never seems to come forward and directly communicate with anybody, he seems to hide behind staff, agents and cleverly engineers his communication through them. Proof to me of this will be the fact that I bet there are no more postings on this website from Sungolf-Unico legal team in response to my claim for my money back because they have nobody to hide behind as I and others dealt directly with them in Madrid.

Beverley Goddard

[Joey123]

Hi Beverly

As long as your lawyers are communicating directly with Unico and you have a signed contract by Unico, with luck your lawyers will achieve the right outcome for you.

Our situation on EBCC seems somewhat different as we have no signed contracts by Sungolf (the developer) as the version of events are different. In that OVP were selling the stock as there own (reselling).

Anyway, lawyers are on the case in any event for both you and I so lets hope we get our money back. It would be nice to have the authorities have a closer look at the OVPI people for us. Maybe in time they will!

Good luck!

Joey123

[Unregistered]

Joey
You are wrong there and as much as i can sympathise with you .The one track that you are clearly on does not seem to be bearing any fruit.
I bought on gardens of manilva and i do not have a signed contract by the developer like you .But a judge in spain has confirmed that ocean view was an agent and because of that the developer is responsible for the money which is why as clients we have action against the developer .Surely if this can be shown on estepona beach then that gives strong potential action against the developer and a chance to get your money back. Mind you reading about ricardo miranda it does not sound good and as someone previoulsy posted if grant thornton recover any money it will go in there fees.
good luck

[Unregistered]

Hi All

First time posting a thread on hear but can anyone tell me if anyone was duped by OVP into swoping deposits from Estepona Beach & Country Club and into Tafedna Bay, Morocco? If so are GT doing anything about this?

[Unregistered]

Hi Joey & Beverley,

My name is Rakesh and it seems having read your threads that we maybe in a similar position with the above?

We had purchased through OVP in Manilva Beach which completed after some delay but due to the forecasted rents being a complete lie we sold up. But before any the web of deceit started to un-fold we were advised to re-mortgage and re-invest, which we did into Estepona Beach & Country Club. Now as you know there were planning issues at this time and severe delays in getting this development off the ground and our deposit was paid and with the developer (allegedly). So we were given the option to wait of transfer the deposit to Tafedna Bay, which we did and contracts were signed by us but never returned signed back from the developers. During this period ALL s**t hit the fan and this is where we are. Is there any light you could shine on the situation thus far as I'm not getting much joy with GT??

Regards,
Rakesh (raxd@hotmail.com)

[Joey123]

Dear Rakesh

Did you use a solicitor in any of the transactions?

How did you deal with?

[Joey123]

sorry, who did you deal with?

[Unregistered]

Hi Joey/Beverley,

When we purchased Manilva Beach the lawyer was Leslie Alberachi (Conveyancing UK) and then the file was passed onto a Spanish lawyer nearing completion. But with EBCC it was direct with OVP as no formal contracts had exchanged hands only reservations agreements and the same with Tafedna Bay.

We dealt with people who we were led to belive we OVP, but it then came to light it was another firm called Zenith Property Investment a chap called xx xx............ever heard of him/them??

Regards,
Rakesh

[chalkstorm]

....a chap call xx xx ............ever heard of him/them??


That's who I dealt with...............:mad:

Very convincing throughout about how great OVP were and how safe our money was... for 3 years or more.....

[Joey123]

does not look good. I know of this chap's name. Don't have any opinion on the co/person.

Poster below believes that there is potentially recourse against the developer. I suppose it depends if a case can be built to support this. Lawbird (if that's the correct firm) seem to think it might be (I think I read). Register your interest if they think thay can take a case. Anyone who did not use a solicitor to purchase on this site should consider this. I am not sure if they have any other option.

I note the G of M situation. It depends on what evidence there is, I suppose, to make a similar claim. Sungolf say they sold the site as a whole to OVP. So them what do you make of the unsigned contracts. Fraud? Certainly Spain needs to chacge it's laws - contracts should be binding when signed by both parties in my opinion and property exchanged. I would like to know if any lawyers are fighting for that change.

It is interesting how comments can be made ..."the one course of action I am on not bearing fruit...." while not knowing what I am doing and whether I am making progress ... how odd! Anyway, we are all in a mess with this, and with time passing, time will run out for action.

I'm looking forward to the Grant Thornton update letter, which is imminent!

[Joey123]

in other words - did OVP make these contracts up themselves to make us think we were contracting with Sungolf? If so, that would be fraud. Who the hell knows. Sungolf's lawyers have stated that OVP agreed to purchase the whole site to sell on. OVP said otherwise per the letter from GT. Hopefully, Grant Thornton will find out.

[Unregistered]

Proof that the story that the information published on http://ricardomirandamiret.com/ being an attempt by delinquents to hurt Ricardo Miranda and Punta Perla is true. On http://mirandayasociados.com/ , the latest resolution from the courts removing the arrest and lien placed on the property. The courts only move this quickly when they know they made an error.

[Unregistered]

We dont need anymore life destroying stories on here but my Dad has just died because of the stress this has caused to our family. I personally have had enough of this. Any of you Fuckers want to explain why you didnt return calls, e-mails or recorded letters. If the law cant sort this out mess i will. WW DM HN IW

You know who i am and where i live. Come visit me.

JJ

[lucy]

I understand that Lee is the brother of Adam who worked for OVP andtook deposits from us on properties at Gardens of Manilva EBCC Dominican Republic and Morrocco. We have been totally robbed! We were also offered the scam of transfering to M Beach and paying Zenith even more cash!

[Joey123]

JJ,

None of the initials are of the main people behind OVP. The lies of the set up from the main people. The agents were stating what they were told. I doubt if anyone was aware that the EBCC was anything other than what they were told. Maybe WW was a big agent representing OVP. Was he aware EBCC was not as stated??? I am pretty certain the agent I deal with was not.

The main ringleaders are the ones who need to be looked at. However, the people who sold you the property should be answering your calls. There are people above the people you mentioned who took and spent the money we gave them.

Last I heard, Staffordshire Police were waiting for a response from the SFO on whether they would be investigating this matter.

It is CT, XXX and BP that need to refund our money - they were behind this all. The company they represented stole our money. Who authorised/allowed/did this?

They need to be asked what they did with our money - the police have so far not helped - will they do so?

JJ - So sorry to hear of the sad news

[Unregistered]

I agree with the comments that the agents were not the main culprits in the " scam", but they could have been honest to us and informed clients earlier there was a problem. We were unaware the OVP were in trouble until we came across this website,and saw the message left on theirs! I am assuming that our investment to the tune of thousands has gone without much, if any hope, of recovering any of it. Some people may think, we took a risk, and were being greedy for easy money, but that was not the case, they sold it to us as a sound business investment and it seemed very plausable. As yet we have not sought legal advice, as we are not sure if we would be throwing even more of our hard earned cash down a deep hole.
Some people appear to have registered "something" with Grant Thornton,we have never been contacted by them, can anyone explain how they contact clients of OVP?

[Unregistered]

both these men have swindled money out of the public xxxx who works with thomas has also taken money of people for propertys that dont exitst his company is call Advantage international properties advantage bulgarian homes shall i go on! a name for all seasons.
they work together in swindling charities out of millions a year by means of clothing collections! credit card deals you name it they are into it.
I pity any poor human being who comes into contact with these two men and their cronies were is the justice in this world!!!!!

I have one of the poor human being who came into contact with (Name removed upon request) . I have been a recent victim on a Bulgarian property scam. Yes, sold apartment that do not exist! Pity I did not do a search on him or I would have found out that he is a fraudster. From what I have read he seems to be doing these cons for a long time now. I can't believe that he has been allowed to get away with these scams for so long.

Since I have been a victim, I have noticed that he has been selling raffle tickets for a bogus charity and he is now operating under Advantage Africa.

[Joey123]

1) Legal advice - if you have not sought any then you may wish to know some are making claims against a solicitor who was recommended to them by OVP. An option. A bit of reasearch will find some named solicitors acting who you can speak with;

2) When a company goes into liquidation, if you feel you are owed money by it you need to make a claim so you are registed as a creditor. Grant Thornton were appoited liqudators at a meeting of creditors held by the Insolvancy Service. For advice speak with:

Grant Thrnton
30 Finsbury Sq
London EC2P 2YU

020 7383 5100

Nick Wood and Ian Richardson are the joint Liquidators.

However, call Samantha Locke on 020 7728 2651 or email her samantha.j.locke@gtuk.com for advice on registering a claim.

Agree, we were duped. Not greedy. Conned. The perpertrators must get brought to justice.