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Thread: Ramirez and Ramirez

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  1. #1
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    Default Ramirez and Ramirez

    Has anyone had dealings with a law firm based in Malaga, Ramirez & Ramirez?

  2. #2
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    Default Ramirez &Ramirez

    I had a call from these people and was suspicious so I am now ,like you trying to find out more about them, If there is any such firm

  3. #3
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    Default Ramirez and Ramirez

    We are receiving a large number of emails enquiring about this 'law firm'. Apparently they are mass cold calling timeshare owners offering legal representation to recover funds. Although we have no details yet about this organisation, we can safely assume it is nothing but another scam of the dozens currently active.

    For further information, please read this thread:

    Public Warning.-Scammers passing themselves off as Spanish lawyers and law firms

  4. #4
    suziebilly
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    Default Ramirez & Ramirez

    We too have just had a phone call from Ramirez & Ramirez promising to refund the money paid to get rid of our timeshare by joing DWVC. We were hoping to get our money back via reclaim. Does anyone know about this company or do we just give up of ev er getting our money back. I thought we were foolproof as regards scams, but obviously not. However, we haven't paid any money to this company having googles them first.

    suziebilly

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by suziebilly View Post
    We too have just had a phone call from Ramirez & Ramirez promising to refund the money paid to get rid of our timeshare by joing DWVC.
    The following is taken from the Action Fraud site:

    Fraud recovery fraud happens when former fraud victims are told the money they’ve lost can be recovered.
    [...]
    Are you a victim of fraud recovery fraud?
    • You’ve been contacted, either by phone or email, by someone saying they are a lawyer, a law enforcement officer or an official working for a government agency in another country. They know you’ve already lost money to a fraud and tell you they can recover your money for you.
    • You’ve paid them a fee in order to recover your lost money.
    Therefore, anyone who pays a fee to someone who contacts you out of the blue to offer money recovery services and knows that you have been previously ripped off, qualifies as a victim of fraud recovery fraud.

    Action Fraud is the UK’s national fraud reporting centre. I recommend that you report this company through their online reporting tool.

  6. #6
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    Default Reporting in the UK

    If you have given you credit card details then tell your card provider and, if the money has gone through a UK comnpany, tell them there is a possibility of merchant acquirer fraud.

    Contact Consumer Direct (while it still exists - the UK Govenrnment wants to do away with consumer protection) - these complaints will be notified to Trading Standards and give them the info needed to go through the EU consumer centres.

    The OFT does not deal with individual complaints and will refer you back to Trading Standards. The Police will not deal with fraud under about £10000 and will refer yo to Trading Standards.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I had a call from these people and was suspicious so I am now ,like you trying to find out more about them, If there is any such firm
    Dear Sir or Madam,

    I've never heard of this law firm before.

    You write you are receiving cold-calls from them?

    Legitimate Spanish law firms never do this.

    How did they obtain your contact details? Your personal details are protected by Spain's Data Protection Act.

    If they have these details it's because they purchased the data base of some timeshare company where you invested/were scammed. It is well-known these data bases are being continously (mis)sold in the black market amongst scammers who then set-up bogus "law firms" and then make cold-calls to the UK or elsewhere offering "group litigation" against the scammers in exchange of thousands of euros. These litgation procedures are never successful and those who pay for them are never returned their investments nor the "legal" (scam) fees paid.

    In short, it's the scam of the scam.

    Are they offering you a "group" legal action (law suit) against timeshare companies in which you've invested?

    Have you spoken to one of their registered lawyers? Do you have the name, surname of this lawyer? If you can PM me the details of one of their lawyers.

    We will look into it for you. We will post our findings on this thread.

    Yours faithfully,
    Raymundo LarraÃ*n Nesbitt
    Last edited by Lawbird Lawyer; 11-12-2009 at 12:39 PM.

  8. #8
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    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Further to your query on “Ramirez & Ramirez law firm” we’ve made some interesting discoveries.

    Their website is both in Spanish and in English. Each has their own internet domains.

    1. First of all the Spanish website itself, “abogadosespecialistas dot es” was registered on the 20th August 2009. So it’s only three months old.

    2. The English website, “specialists-lawyers dot com” was registered on the 21st October 2009. A couple of weeks old.

    Domain Name: SPECIALIST-LAWYERS.COM
    Registrant: -personal contact details deleted for privacy reasons-
    Creation Date: 21-Oct-2009
    Expiration Date: 21-Oct-2010

    3. The person listed as director of Ramirez and Ramirez Abogados additionally appears as administrator on the following companies, all of which have a long history and ring the bell. Just google them.

    At best they are dubious (KPTA) and at worst they are simply, erm to put it mildly, very dubious (Fuengirola Servicios 2002, S.L.):

    a) KEY PROPERTIES TOWN ADVISORY SL (AKA as KPTA)
    b) FUENGIROLA SERVICIOS 2002 SL
    c) RAMIREZ & RAMIREZ ABOGADOS SL


    4. On the first company, we already had a thread in our forum on “Key Properties Town Advisory” (KPTA or KPA):

    http://www.marbella-lawyers.com/foru...read.php?t=698

    The European Consumer Authorities for Spain, located in Madrid, to whom I personally spoke over the phone on KPTA, were very unhappy with their behavior to the point they have their name listed down as a warning to consumers on the front of their webpage. It is highly significant that the only company they have listed is precisely KPTA as can be read on their website in English: http://cec.consumo-inc.es/

    Furthermore, the European Consumer Authorities have even written a PDF document warning on the activities of KPTA: http://cec.consumo-inc.es/cec/Ultima...tyAdvisory.pdf

    5. As for “FUENGIROLA SERVICIOS 2002 SL” you will find this company listed in multiple timeshare blacklists.

    Unsurprisingly, “FUENGIROLA SERVICIOS 2002 SL” are not included in the black list provided by "Ramirez & Ramirez Abogados, S.L." as can be read on their website which happens to include hundreds of well-known timeshare scam companies.

    Just google them. E.g. http://www.timesharecouncil.eu/#F

    They offered through cold-calls to take legal action (group actions) on behalf of those foreigners who were afflicted by timeshare-related scams in Spain. It is still unclear from where they obtained their client's contact details to make these cold-calls. It is suspected, although unproven, that it was the time-share companies themselves which sold or provided them the contact details. Somehow the contact details of thousands of scammed timeshare buyers was passed on from the timeshare companies onto FUENGIROLA SERVICIOS 2002, SL.

    6. The last one, the newest company, is the “law firm” on which you are querying. He appears at the Company’s House as the sole administrator of “Ramirez & Ramirez Abogados, S.L.”. This company was trading formerly under the name "Legal Specialists Advisory Service SL" and they changed their name over to "Ramirez and Ramirez Abogados SL" on the 23rd September 2009.

    On checking Spain’s Lawyer’s data base he does not appear as a registered lawyer to practice, which is never a good sign.

    We repeat again as per all our legal articles and posts, that under new legislation, you must be a registered lawyer to own a law firm in Spain. Not to mention that only registered lawyers have Professional Indemnity Insurance available in case of malpractice or negligence.

    In fact, all legitimate law firms in Spain trade as S.L.P. (Sociedad Limitada Profesional) and not as S.L.'s, in compliance with the newly passed regulation.

    7. Funnily enough, on their recently created website, they denounce other dubious Spanish “law firms” which have been regulars over the last months in our own forum, such as Legal Advice Counsel or First Legal Services. I guess it’s a small world after all.

    I leave you and everyone else to draw your own conclusions given the track record of whose behind all three companies.

    Yours faithfully,
    Raymundo LarraÃ*n Nesbitt



    N.B. Friday 2nd July 2010

    Just to clarify on my three posts on this thread (post 4, 5 and 7).

    I have never written, said or labelled "RamÃ*rez and RamÃ*rez Abogados, S.L.", or its members or its corporate activities as "fraudulent", as a "scam" or as anything else. That has been written and concluded by other posters on this and other threads. What I've clearly written is a reply to the original poster's queries, posts 1 and 2 on this thread, on whether this company was in fact a law firm. And the gist of my reply on post 5, following research, was that it was not a law firm following what I write above.

    If posters on this and other threads have jumped to conclusions labelling "RamÃ*rez and RamÃ*rez Abogados, S.L.", its members and/or its corporate activities as "cheats", "fraudsters", "scammers" or whatever they will, please bear in mind they are taking responsibility for their own words, posts and conclusions. It was never my intention to label this company or its members or its activities as such.

    I will not be held accountable for what other people write or conclude on this thread or in any other thread.

    As I clearly wrote above I did not draw any conclusions on them, much less label them or their corporate activity in any manner whatsoever, leaving readers to reach their own conclusions.
    Last edited by Lawbird Lawyer; 07-02-2010 at 04:44 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default

    We have received a cold call call from this firm Ramirez Legal Specialists. We have emailed all the information they asked for about our holiday club. I spoke to Anthony Ward yesterday and today had a call from John Didcott Head Legal Advisor asking me for £495 to have paperwork translated for the courts (Malaga Crown Court) and we will receive five thousand one hundred pounds back from our claim. We were also told that the lawyers have paid all the legal fees and we would only have to pay for translating documents. We will not be paying this as I think it is a scam!
    Both these men spoke very good English as they told me the company is in Malaga.

    From a very suspicious couple,
    Linda and David Warren.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lawbird Lawyer View Post
    Dear Sir or Madam,

    I've never heard of this law firm before.

    You write you are receiving cold-calls from them?

    Legitimate Spanish law firms never do this.

    How did they obtain your contact details? Your personal details are protected by Spain's Data Protection Act.

    If they have these details it's because they purchased the data base of some timeshare company where you invested/were scammed. It is well-known these data bases are being continously (mis)sold in the black market amongst scammers who then set-up bogus "law firms" and then make cold-calls to the UK or elsewhere offering "group litigation" against the scammers in exchange of thousands of euros. These litgation procedures are never successful and those who pay for them are never returned their investments nor the "legal" (scam) fees paid.

    In short, it's the scam of the scam.

    Are they offering you a "group" legal action (law suit) against timeshare companies in which you've invested?

    Have you spoken to one of their registered lawyers? Do you have the name, surname of this lawyer? If you can PM me the details of one of their lawyers.

    We will look into it for you. We will post our findings on this thread.

    Yours faithfully,
    Raymundo LarraÃ*n Nesbitt

  10. #10
    Unregistered
    Guest

    Default

    I have just had a call from an Andrea Reed from Ramirez and Ramirez, concerning money we had payed to DWVC, (which we are sure we will never see again), and how Ramirez and Ramirez are trying to help peolpe get their money back from disreputable Timeshare companies. There seem to be a lot of these so called "lawyers" trying to con people into parting with yet more money in the vain hope of getting some of theri initilal "investment" back. We always Google these legal companies, and, to date, they all seem to be conmen. I even told Andrea that there were a number of "lawyers" trying to scam people further and she agrees that it was an awful thing for them to be doing! I can't wait to receive her follow up call in a couple of weeeks!!!

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