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Thread: Ramirez and Ramirez

  1. #1
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    Default Ramirez and Ramirez

    Has anyone had dealings with a law firm based in Malaga, Ramirez & Ramirez?

  2. #2
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    Default Ramirez &Ramirez

    I had a call from these people and was suspicious so I am now ,like you trying to find out more about them, If there is any such firm

  3. #3
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    Default Ramirez and Ramirez

    We are receiving a large number of emails enquiring about this 'law firm'. Apparently they are mass cold calling timeshare owners offering legal representation to recover funds. Although we have no details yet about this organisation, we can safely assume it is nothing but another scam of the dozens currently active.

    For further information, please read this thread:

    Public Warning.-Scammers passing themselves off as Spanish lawyers and law firms

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I had a call from these people and was suspicious so I am now ,like you trying to find out more about them, If there is any such firm
    Dear Sir or Madam,

    I've never heard of this law firm before.

    You write you are receiving cold-calls from them?

    Legitimate Spanish law firms never do this.

    How did they obtain your contact details? Your personal details are protected by Spain's Data Protection Act.

    If they have these details it's because they purchased the data base of some timeshare company where you invested/were scammed. It is well-known these data bases are being continously (mis)sold in the black market amongst scammers who then set-up bogus "law firms" and then make cold-calls to the UK or elsewhere offering "group litigation" against the scammers in exchange of thousands of euros. These litgation procedures are never successful and those who pay for them are never returned their investments nor the "legal" (scam) fees paid.

    In short, it's the scam of the scam.

    Are they offering you a "group" legal action (law suit) against timeshare companies in which you've invested?

    Have you spoken to one of their registered lawyers? Do you have the name, surname of this lawyer? If you can PM me the details of one of their lawyers.

    We will look into it for you. We will post our findings on this thread.

    Yours faithfully,
    Raymundo Larraín Nesbitt
    Last edited by Lawbird Lawyer; 11-12-2009 at 11:39 AM.

  5. #5
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    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Further to your query on “Ramirez & Ramirez law firm” we’ve made some interesting discoveries.

    Their website is both in Spanish and in English. Each has their own internet domains.

    1. First of all the Spanish website itself, “abogadosespecialistas dot es” was registered on the 20th August 2009. So it’s only three months old.

    2. The English website, “specialists-lawyers dot com” was registered on the 21st October 2009. A couple of weeks old.

    Domain Name: SPECIALIST-LAWYERS.COM
    Registrant: -personal contact details deleted for privacy reasons-
    Creation Date: 21-Oct-2009
    Expiration Date: 21-Oct-2010

    3. The person listed as director of Ramirez and Ramirez Abogados additionally appears as administrator on the following companies, all of which have a long history and ring the bell. Just google them.

    At best they are dubious (KPTA) and at worst they are simply, erm to put it mildly, very dubious (Fuengirola Servicios 2002, S.L.):

    a) KEY PROPERTIES TOWN ADVISORY SL (AKA as KPTA)
    b) FUENGIROLA SERVICIOS 2002 SL
    c) RAMIREZ & RAMIREZ ABOGADOS SL


    4. On the first company, we already had a thread in our forum on “Key Properties Town Advisory” (KPTA or KPA):

    http://www.marbella-lawyers.com/foru...read.php?t=698

    The European Consumer Authorities for Spain, located in Madrid, to whom I personally spoke over the phone on KPTA, were very unhappy with their behavior to the point they have their name listed down as a warning to consumers on the front of their webpage. It is highly significant that the only company they have listed is precisely KPTA as can be read on their website in English: http://cec.consumo-inc.es/

    Furthermore, the European Consumer Authorities have even written a PDF document warning on the activities of KPTA: http://cec.consumo-inc.es/cec/Ultima...tyAdvisory.pdf

    5. As for “FUENGIROLA SERVICIOS 2002 SL” you will find this company listed in multiple timeshare blacklists.

    Unsurprisingly, “FUENGIROLA SERVICIOS 2002 SL” are not included in the black list provided by "Ramirez & Ramirez Abogados, S.L." as can be read on their website which happens to include hundreds of well-known timeshare scam companies.

    Just google them. E.g. http://www.timesharecouncil.eu/#F

    They offered through cold-calls to take legal action (group actions) on behalf of those foreigners who were afflicted by timeshare-related scams in Spain. It is still unclear from where they obtained their client's contact details to make these cold-calls. It is suspected, although unproven, that it was the time-share companies themselves which sold or provided them the contact details. Somehow the contact details of thousands of scammed timeshare buyers was passed on from the timeshare companies onto FUENGIROLA SERVICIOS 2002, SL.

    6. The last one, the newest company, is the “law firm” on which you are querying. He appears at the Company’s House as the sole administrator of “Ramirez & Ramirez Abogados, S.L.”. This company was trading formerly under the name "Legal Specialists Advisory Service SL" and they changed their name over to "Ramirez and Ramirez Abogados SL" on the 23rd September 2009.

    On checking Spain’s Lawyer’s data base he does not appear as a registered lawyer to practice, which is never a good sign.

    We repeat again as per all our legal articles and posts, that under new legislation, you must be a registered lawyer to own a law firm in Spain. Not to mention that only registered lawyers have Professional Indemnity Insurance available in case of malpractice or negligence.

    In fact, all legitimate law firms in Spain trade as S.L.P. (Sociedad Limitada Profesional) and not as S.L.'s, in compliance with the newly passed regulation.

    7. Funnily enough, on their recently created website, they denounce other dubious Spanish “law firms” which have been regulars over the last months in our own forum, such as Legal Advice Counsel or First Legal Services. I guess it’s a small world after all.

    I leave you and everyone else to draw your own conclusions given the track record of whose behind all three companies.

    Yours faithfully,
    Raymundo Larraín Nesbitt



    N.B. Friday 2nd July 2010

    Just to clarify on my three posts on this thread (post 4, 5 and 7).

    I have never written, said or labelled "Ramírez and Ramírez Abogados, S.L.", or its members or its corporate activities as "fraudulent", as a "scam" or as anything else. That has been written and concluded by other posters on this and other threads. What I've clearly written is a reply to the original poster's queries, posts 1 and 2 on this thread, on whether this company was in fact a law firm. And the gist of my reply on post 5, following research, was that it was not a law firm following what I write above.

    If posters on this and other threads have jumped to conclusions labelling "Ramírez and Ramírez Abogados, S.L.", its members and/or its corporate activities as "cheats", "fraudsters", "scammers" or whatever they will, please bear in mind they are taking responsibility for their own words, posts and conclusions. It was never my intention to label this company or its members or its activities as such.

    I will not be held accountable for what other people write or conclude on this thread or in any other thread.

    As I clearly wrote above I did not draw any conclusions on them, much less label them or their corporate activity in any manner whatsoever, leaving readers to reach their own conclusions.
    Last edited by Lawbird Lawyer; 07-02-2010 at 04:44 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default ramirez

    I had a call from a representitive of this 'company' called Gareth Fletcher. He knew quite a lot of information about the company I had sold the timeshare too DWVC and is supposed to be e-mailing me today

  7. #7
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    Default

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Believe us when we write that we are highly reluctant to engage in fights or public slagging matches with any company. But what we just cannot do is stand idly whilst we receive daily emails from grannys who are 80 years old and who have been cheated out of their lives savings by unscrupulous timeshare companies and who may yet be being conned again by other outfits.

    We'll just quote what we've written on companies that follow this same modus operandi. In the more than ten years we've been around all companies that followed this procedure have turned out to be scams, without exception:

    List of Bogus Spanish Law Firms

    We have compiled a list of such bogus law firms. They claim to be lawyers or legitimate Spanish law firms when in fact they are not. Clients are being continously misled to hire them thinking they are retaining the services of properly registered Spanish lawyers when it's not the case. These companies are giving legitimate Spanish law firms and lawyers a bad name.

    Some of these unregulated companies go as far as having a completely legitimate appearance: they have incorporated a Spanish Limited Liability Company (SL), they have a neat profesionally laid out website, they are actually renting some commercial premises, they have multiple workers under payroll working as commission-driven "teleoperators" doing the cold-calling, they file taxes regularly etc. It's often fairly hard for laymen to distinguish them from a legitimate law firm.

    Nigerian bogus law firms are the ones easiest to spot and they are always scams. They only have a website and send letters, e-mails or cold-call you. Their command of English is flawless. They do not incorporate companies, nor rent premises, nor hire workers.

    Non-nigerian outfits are trickier to spot. They share the same modus operandi and always have Brisith or Irish citizens involved (to build rapport) who do the cold-calling of their fellow countrymen fleecing them: they will cold-call you out-of-the-blue offering you "group or class actions" against the timeshare companies in which you've invested. You ought to be fully aware that the person with whom you are dealing and entrusting them your funds are not registered lawyers. They will identify themselves as Paralegals, Legal Advisors, Senior Legal Advisors, Legal Executives etc.

    In the ten years our website has been running all "law firms" that followed this modus operandi of cold-calling clients offering litigation have turned out to be scams. For some bizarre reason a great deal of these "law firms" are located in Fuengirola, Málaga Province. Which out of sheer coincidence just happens to be the same town in which the majority of these timeshare-related scams are also located. They also happen to share the same data base of clients. Again, just coincidence.

    What should raise the alarm bells is just how on earth did these "law firms" get hold of your contact details (name, surname, UK address, e-mail, phone number, name of of the timeshare company in which you invested, the exact amount which you invested etc.)? This information can only be provided or disclosed by the timeshare company that scammed you in the first place. It is clearly a breach of Spain's Data Protection Act. It is not surprising you will be targeted by different "law firms" within the same year poking you to take legal action against the timeshare companies which fleeced you. They seemingly share the same databases as of the dubious timeshare companies.

    Legitimate Spanish law firms never cold-call people. And the reason is simple, they lack your contact details unless you give it to them. Which is why you must mistrust always any phone calls from the UK or from Spain offering you out-of-the-blue to take "class actions" or "group actions" against timeshare companies. Ask yourself why and how do these people have your contact and investment details.

    Legitimate Spanish law firms, in compliance with new regulation that was passed on 2007, have to trade statutorily as S.L.P.'s (Sociedad Limitada Profesional, or SLP). The owner of a Spanish law firm must be a lawyer. 75% of the share ownership must be owned by qualified lawyers. You should be very wary of any law firm located in Spain which is not trading as a registered S.L.P. This can easily be checked at the Spanish Companies' House. You should be very wary of "law firms" trading as S.L.'s whose sole or joint administrator are not registered lawyers. Those who are not registered to practice Law cannot call themselves "lawyers"; you have to be registered to practice law in one of Spain's Law Societies to address yourself as a "lawyer". These companies are often scams.

    Bottomline, to put it simply, if a Spanish law firm is trading as an S.L.P. you have 100% guarantee that you are dealing with properly qualified registered lawyers (who will have Professional Indemnity Insurance against which you can claim in the event of negligence or malpractice). However, if you deal with "law firms" that trade as S.L. or S.L.U. you do not have this guarantee, and quite often they are not lawyers nor legitimate law firms, albeit scammers.

    As a final word of caution, do not be fooled by a company that is trading which has the word "Abogados" (lawyers, in Spanish) in its name, i.e. Perez and Perez Abogados SL. This means nothing.

    A company included in the list herewith doesn't necessarily equate to them being scammers. The companies listed are only those that try to pass themselves off as legitimate Spanish law firms or else offer legal services, even if outsourced, when legally they can not. Which is why they are labelled as bogus law firms because they often mislead clients (mostly from the UK and Irish) into thinking they are hiring a legitimate Spanish law firm when it's not the case.
    Yours faithfully,
    Last edited by Lawbird Lawyer; 03-30-2010 at 05:05 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Named Lawyers?

    After receiving several phone calls from these people wanting to get my money back from a timeshare and cashback scheme I received the following information (among other things) in an e-mail from them:-


    Reg Nº B – 927 850 54


    C/ Cordoba 35, Edf Villa Blanca 1ºC
    Fuengirola, 29640, Málaga, Spain




    Don Tovar Oliver Hernandez Riverol Lic Nº 5991, Doña Sara Lia Vilas Lic Nº 6539 and Patricia Ramirez Clerides Lic Nº 6649 of the Illustrious Official College of Law of Málaga

    They are contracted by Ramirez & Ramirez., based in Calle Cordoba 35, Edif Villa Blanca 1 C, Fuengirola, Málaga.

    They deal with claims on behalf of the clients of Ramirez & Ramirez S.L. including all legalities connected with cases associated with the Timeshare Industry.


    Don Tovar Oliver Hernandez Riverol Lic Nº 5991

    Doña Sara Lia Vilas Lic Nº 6539

    Patricia Ramirez Clerides Lic Nº 6649


    TEL 952 664 151

    FAX 952 468 346





    Are these people genuine or am I being scammed again?

  9. #9
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    Default

    Hi Worksop1

    I have already reported all these companies to the Malaga Law Association, and it is their duty now to report them to the police.

    Regards

  10. #10
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    Angry Ramirez & Ramirez

    I have also been contacted by Ramirez & Ramirez whose details are:

    Reg No. B - 927 850 54
    C/Cordoba 35, Edf Villa Blanca 1oC,
    Fuengirola, 29640, Malaga, Spain
    Tel: 0034 952 664 151 Fax: 0034 952 468 346

    Email: info@specialist-lawyers.com
    Web: www.specialistic-lawyers.com
    ---------------------------------------------

    I was contacted by a Rubecca Harrison who asked for details about my investment in Alvita Holidays/Club Class Conciergen; which was a scam. I sent over a copy of the papers I had and they said they would contact me the following day after it had been discussed with the lawyers. True enough the following day a Mr. Alan James (lawyer?) contacted me and informed me that I will not receive my cashback from my timeshare company, that the case to recover it will be closed soon and that I need to get all the details to him ASAP.

    Not sure if this is a scam but having read the previous Messages I feel it is. So they won't be getting any money from me.

    Can somebody not do anything about all these poxy companies ripping us off.

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