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Thread: No win-No fee? Are you good enough?

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Default No win-No fee? Are you good enough?

    As someone who's directly benefitted in the past from the excellent services of 'Lawbird' I've had no hesitation in recommending their services to others both via forums and in person. Unfortunately I've learned that 'Lawbird' are now quoting what I'd consider to be extortionate fees to represent some who are seeking help recovering deposits.

    In the UK, I know both solicitors and planning consultants (I'm sure there will be other types also) who will take on a case for a pre-agreed percentage of a successful claim. They are able to offer this on a "no win no fee" basis simply because they "know their game" inside out. They're not daft though, if a case looks like it could go either way they'll often say "no thanks" and move on to the more straightforward cases.

    This has 2 main benefits for the company;
    (a) they only back the winners, so their high success rate acts as a magnet for more business, and as they get a percentage of the success instead of a flat fee their cases are more profitable.
    (b) their successes generate happy customers who will then often recommend them to others or provide repeat business in future cases.

    When a company want BOTH a whacking fee up front AND a large percentage of the money reclaimed, they may get the odd taker (if they're desperate enough or daft enough) but this type of short-term greed will ensure they end up with less work in the long run and as the saying goes 'mud sticks'.

    I'm hoping I've got the wrong end of the stick here so would appreciate it is anyone from Lawbird would like to comment on why they have to work it so that they have nothing to lose and everything to gain, whereas the client potentially has everything to lose and nothing to gain.

    Likewise anyone else who's been quoted ridiculously high fees might like to comment. Thanks. Pat

    ps - what's the spanish equivalent to the UK Law Society?
    Last edited by LetDown; 03-30-2009 at 12:42 AM. Reason: typo

  2. #2
    Administrator
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    Oct 2008
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    Default

    Knowing what Lawbird charge for their services in comparison with what other lawyers quote, I cannot agree with you that their fees are extortionate.

    However, I'm sure Lawbird will like to comment.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Marbella
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    1,095

    Default

    Quite frankly we don't understand your complaints. Our legal fees are exactly the same as before, they are unchanged.

    If you are able to find any other law firm that gives such quality service in fluent English at such competitive fees let us know. I suppose you are referring to our litigation service which is what we are specialised in. Our standard minimum legal fees have been posted publicly many times over in different websites:

    E.g.

    1.- Aifos Hipodromo - Lawbirds option
    started by johnny105 8th June 2008 9:59 PM

    “quote”.

    We will need the following amount:

    1. - Legal fees: 4.000€ plus VAT (16%) = 4.640€.
    2. - Provision of funds Procurator: 1.750€
    3. - Provision of funds to pay a certificate from a valuer to establish the compensation we are going to ask the judge: 500€
    4. - Provision of funds for other expenses: 150€.
    TOTAL: 7.040€.


    2. solicitors fees Terry


    In any case the breakdown of our standard litigation fees would be as follows:

    1.- Solicitor's fees 4,000€ plus 16% VAT amounting to 4,640€
    2.- Advocate's fees 1,300€ (which includes first ruling, second ruling and execution)
    3.- Sundries 300€ (couriers fees, registered letters, etc.) the balance of which if unused is refunded to you.
    4.- On top of our legal fees we also charge 10% on all the recovered amounts (stage payments, legal interests and compensation -if applicable-).

    So on average our standard litigation fees for a case similar to yours would amount to a total of 6,240€.

    If we win the First hearing you are not charged to go onto a Second hearing (should the defendant file an appeal). Should we lose the First hearing then we would request additional fees to file the appeal at your choice which would amount on average to approx 1,800€.

    On filing a lawsuit we will also request from you an amount to secure a provisional embargo plus additional advocate's fees. This amount is placed before the law court. Please request our litigation FAQ in which this point is explained clearly to avoid any misunderstandments. Often there's really no point in litigating in these cases if no provisional embargo is requested from the judge. Please read our article on the matter.



    Moreover, if you bother to read the above quotes on litigation fees, not only have we not increased them, we've lowered them! We've been able to achieve this thanks to our high volumes in litigation which has enabled us to negotiate more competitive advocate's fees on behalf of our clients.

    We have never accepted a no-win, no-fee as it's forbidden under the rules of the Spanish Law Society. On us taking a case we have to pay the procurador (advocate) up front. Supposing we were allowed to do as you post we would go bankrupt within 3 months if we were to take hundreds of cases meaning that we would have to pay hundreds of thousands of euros out of our own pocket up front to advocates. Litigation takes 2-3 years on average, so we would have to wait that long to recover our funds.

    As we know our trade, we cannot afford to do this and neither can any other Spanish law firm. Comparing the English legal system with the Spanish one is simply not knowing what you are writing of.

    Regarding these comments of yours:


    Quote Originally Posted by LetDown View Post

    As someone who's directly benefitted in the past from the excellent services of 'Lawbird' ...

    When a company want BOTH a whacking fee up front AND a large percentage of the money reclaimed,
    If you've ever been a client of Lawbird you should already know we've always charged 10% on all the recovered amounts. This is not something new as you seemingly imply. In all our Letters of Engagement it is reflected as well as in our F.A.Q. on litigation and in all our emails requesting quotes on litigation fees.

    As for your comment on the whaking fee again it just shows you do not know what you are writing as our standard legal fees for litigation (4000€) remain unchanged. I think your friend or yourself ought to shop around requesting for legal quotes on litigation and you will be able to confirm we have probably the most competitive fees.

    In the second link above to another thread on solicitor's fees, a very well-known internet lawyer was requesting almost 23,000€ up front for a case in which we would only charge 6,240€ (of which only 4,000€ are strictly our legal fees, the rest are expenses). On us being successful we would additionally charge 10% on all the recovered amounts.

    You can hardly be more competitive than that, almost a 400% difference in legal fees.

  4. #4
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    Default mrs L

    So.... let's cut to the chase....... is their a governing body who rule over all the solicitors in spain OR NOT? From what I can see there isn't and the whole system is unruly as we've been "had" by 2 Spanish solicitors already hence why we are now looking to the EU MP's to look at why, in Spain, there is no governing body who can, if the practice is found negligable, be stopped from further and immediate practice

    people who profess to be there to help are indeed only there to get what they can out of a case and, because
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawbird Lawyer View Post
    Quite frankly we don't understand your complaints. Our legal fees are exactly the same as before, they are unchanged.

    If you are able to find any other law firm that gives such quality service in fluent English at such competitive fees let us know. I suppose you are referring to our litigation service which is what we are specialised in. Our standard minimum legal fees have been posted publicly many times over in different websites:

    E.g.

    1.- Aifos Hipodromo - Lawbirds option
    started by johnny105 8th June 2008 9:59 PM

    “quote”.

    We will need the following amount:

    1. - Legal fees: 4.000€ plus VAT (16%) = 4.640€.
    2. - Provision of funds Procurator: 1.750€
    3. - Provision of funds to pay a certificate from a valuer to establish the compensation we are going to ask the judge: 500€
    4. - Provision of funds for other expenses: 150€.
    TOTAL: 7.040€.


    2. solicitors fees Terry


    In any case the breakdown of our standard litigation fees would be as follows:

    1.- Solicitor's fees 4,000€ plus 16% VAT amounting to 4,640€
    2.- Advocate's fees 1,300€ (which includes first ruling, second ruling and execution)
    3.- Sundries 300€ (couriers fees, registered letters, etc.) the balance of which if unused is refunded to you.
    4.- On top of our legal fees we also charge 10% on all the recovered amounts (stage payments, legal interests and compensation -if applicable-).

    So on average our standard litigation fees for a case similar to yours would amount to a total of 6,240€.

    If we win the First hearing you are not charged to go onto a Second hearing (should the defendant file an appeal). Should we lose the First hearing then we would request additional fees to file the appeal at your choice which would amount on average to approx 1,800€.

    On filing a lawsuit we will also request from you an amount to secure a provisional embargo plus additional advocate's fees. This amount is placed before the law court. Please request our litigation FAQ in which this point is explained clearly to avoid any misunderstandments. Often there's really no point in litigating in these cases if no provisional embargo is requested from the judge. Please read our article on the matter.



    Moreover, if you bother to read the above quotes on litigation fees, not only have we not increased them, we've lowered them! We've been able to achieve this thanks to our high volumes in litigation which has enabled us to negotiate more competitive advocate's fees on behalf of our clients.

    We have never accepted a no-win, no-fee as it's forbidden under the rules of the Spanish Law Society. On us taking a case we have to pay the procurador (advocate) up front. Supposing we were allowed to do as you post we would go bankrupt within 3 months if we were to take hundreds of cases meaning that we would have to pay hundreds of thousands of euros out of our own pocket up front to advocates. Litigation takes 2-3 years on average, so we would have to wait that long to recover our funds.

    As we know our trade, we cannot afford to do this and neither can any other Spanish law firm. Comparing the English legal system with the Spanish one is simply not knowing what you are writing of.

    Regarding these comments of yours:




    If you've ever been a client of Lawbird you should already know we've always charged 10% on all the recovered amounts. This is not something new as you seemingly imply. In all our Letters of Engagement it is reflected as well as in our F.A.Q. on litigation and in all our emails requesting quotes on litigation fees.

    As for your comment on the whaking fee again it just shows you do not know what you are writing as our standard legal fees for litigation (4000€) remain unchanged. I think your friend or yourself ought to shop around requesting for legal quotes on litigation and you will be able to confirm we have probably the most competitive fees.

    In the second link above to another thread on solicitor's fees, a very well-known internet lawyer was requesting almost 23,000€ up front for a case in which we would only charge 6,240€ (of which only 4,000€ are strictly our legal fees, the rest are expenses). On us being successful we would additionally charge 10% on all the recovered amounts.

    You can hardly be more competitive than that, almost a 400% difference in legal fees.

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