?????
You are a lawyer (apparently)
PROOF OF DEBT
Just because someone pays money to another party does not prove a debt. You need to look at the contracts involved and the implications around the status of the party to whom you paid the money to.
Printable View
?????
You are a lawyer (apparently)
PROOF OF DEBT
Just because someone pays money to another party does not prove a debt. You need to look at the contracts involved and the implications around the status of the party to whom you paid the money to.
Dear Sir/Madam,
Yes I'm a Spanish lawyer. I would kindly ask you to mind your tone.
I'm only trying to help here. I'm quoting what the letter states, that's all. I'm not familiar with English law or its terms. For us it is different.
As stated previously, if in doubt we've provided the contact details of the Insolvency Procedure to clarify and query. We are unable to assist further as this relates exclusively to English law and must be dealt with by English lawyers.
I trust you understand.
Apologies.
I did not intend that to come across as rudely as it appears.
I have spoken to the OR and barristers and there is real doubt as to whether people who entered into contracts with the developers are actually creditors of Ocean View.
I thnk it may be a while before a properly argued opinion is forthcoming form a court.
Not to worry, I understand its a very stressful situation many of you are undergoing.
Unfortunately we've only been able to represent a handful of OVP clients because OVP never managed to prove the funds had been sent over to Spain, to the developer's account, despite all the repeated requests from their own clients to do so.
The whole court case in Spain would hinge on us proving that. The only thing clients could provide us were the blue hard paper receipts of payment to OVP which was insufficient.
Which is why we've had to turn down countless OVP clients because they were unable to prove (or OVP was unable to) that the deposits had been transferred over to Spain.
Dear Lawbird lawyer,
Have you not contacted Staffordshire police for the copy of the bank statement which shows millions being transferred. It's been pretty easy to prove, it just takes so long through the courts.
Also have you heard what investigations are taking place in Spain? I heard that some officials from fraud/police departments were having various meetings in Spain.
Hope you can shed some light on the Spanish investigations.
Thank you.
I have been viewing comments on this forum along with the eye on spain link for a while and know exactly what you are all going through.
As an investor from Northern Ireland i am no longer going to sit and feel sorry for myself about being duped by these people.
Like many others i have contacted the Insolvency Service and The Economic Crime Unit and i have also contacted my local MP with the names and addresses of the known IFA'S and representatives of OVP in N. Ireland and their activities.
At the very least, after a police investigation, these people should be made known as they should never again be allowed to con innocent victims with their bravado, false promises and blatant lies.
I would encourage other investors to do the same and allow our political representatives to put pressure on the necessary agencies to find out the truth.
From a personal level, all i ever asked for was contact and honesty from the people who sold me these apartments. If this had occured i perhaps may have had more sympathy for them. However persistent failure to answer calls or e-mails for months on end and receiving hefty commissions for apartments that never had a building license is certainly not morally correct and i would imagine legally wrong.
3 years of anquish, mental turmoil, depression, financial ruin and extreme anger has to end if my family are to attempt to return to some form of normality.
All those involved, in my opinion and experience, have questions to answer and fast.
sorry Orla
my number is 028 38362005
Beverley
having spoken to the insolvency service this morning, bank transfer documents and written confirmation from OVP that these funds were received, in relation to an intended purchase with the apartment address included is sufficient proof of debt.
I am trusting the insolvencey service is giving out correct information.
I would be very interested in speaking to anyone else in Northern Ireland regarding this, my telephone number is in the above post
Beverley
I think the focus has to be placed firmly on the activities of CT, JKS, MB, BP and possibly SJ. Mainly CT. Someone was happy to disgregard the promise, verbally and in writing in my contract, for the deposts money (in full) not to be held in a "client account" until the build licence was granted. This was solely the decision of those at O*P (the company at Long**n Hall). I think they alone got us into this mess. Not anyone else. the focus needs to be in their illegal activities and the shortcomings in legal work which allowed us to be exposed to this fraud. They alone controlled the money and used these assurance of funds being protectend and held in client accounts to use people to con their clients out of substantial monies.
Hounding the agent (other than AS/Z***th) I feel might possibly be unfair. Although I would expect them to be firmly fighting your corner and backing you up as they were peddling the false promises (probably on trust) of O*P who did not honour this agreement. Mine is currently helping me to some extent, but not enough. O*P seemed happy to fob us off and give so called insurance policies to protect us which were not in anyway going to do that. I'm not sure why I feel the need to hide identities (more to help the administrator) but you all know these are anyway.
Regards
Joey123
Can anyone tell me if they successfully transferred their deposit from EBCC to the Moroccan development at Tafedna? i received and signed contracts but held back when i was promised repayments of my deposit (50k) starting back in Feb. This of course never happened but I'm wondering do the Moroccan contracts still hold good?
Rose
Does anyone know if, when they find out our money has disappeared, we would be entitled to some form of criminal compensation.
Lawbird, would you have an answer to this??
Rose,
I did transfer to Morocco and signed contracts in July 08. I have recently been told by UNICO that they never received these contracts despite promises from those at Longdon Hall that they had been sent.
UNICO also informed me that OVP bought the commercial license for Estepona Beach but when the Building License was not granted all money was returned to OVP.
Difficult to know who to believe so my advice is believe none of them. Let the police do the job we as honest hard working tax payers pay them to do and when they investigate the scale of this and talk to investors surely some form of justice has to be done.
I have been stockpiling supplies of bread and water and could also happily convert my garage into a medieval dungeon if requested. Wouldnt it be great to be the guard looking in at them every minute of every day for years.
Jay
Thank you for that info. How did you contact Unico please?
I dont think you can believe a word that Unico say, the company is owned by the thieving scumbag Mr M*rand*! May he get all he deserves.
have you tried to contact Unico on the Tafanda Bay Resort Website - ask to become and agent and fill in the form. They will contact you then and you can ask them what the hell is going on
http://www.tafednabayresort.com/inve...come-an-agent/
I cannot see an phone no or an address so this is your only option, possibly.
It's very interesting that the developers always seem to have never received contacts or deposit monies - clearly for the very reasons set out above.
i think you'll find saying that they never received contracts money etc is just an easy reason, but that have nothing to back it up. The money to buy punta perla was taken partly from estepona deposits and this will be easy to eveidence by the authorities. 22 million does not just vanish from accounts. the police and fraud can get this information very easily. i think we'll find that this will all come out in the wash, although it takes time.
i agree with you, all the fraudsters involved deserve everything they've got coming their way! dont ever give up the fight, its obvious that a massive fraud has taken place.
no matter what unico/miranda actually say. they are part of the scam. if miranda had a large development like estepona and never received any contracts or deposits would he not of investigated??! Of course he would of, but there was nothing to investigate, he'd received the money and bought punta perla. 100% con man.
Check out zenith overseas website, who were promoting all the same properties as oceanview properties? Wasn't Zenith run by Adam Sargeant?
They have tried to disguise their website by removing all the OVP developments, but the same guys are probably still running the scam.
Warnings should be sent to as many websites as possible, just for people to be very careful of such a company.
I hope for all our sakes that Mr Miranda is the problem. If so the Punta Perla land which he owns is worth over 1 Billion US Dollars and perhaps may at least get us some money back. I totally agree that those responsible for running Oceanview (2 Directors in particular) have been untruthful but to criticise those who worked for them is wrong. They were fed incorrect information which was then relayed to us. They feel as bad as we do and are owed commissions and wages. Stuart Jones, by the way is not in Brazil on a beach spending our money. He is working in an accounts office in Birmingham trying to provide for his family and pay a mortgage on a modest 3 bedroom house as OVP shafted him too. He contacted me this morning and will continue to do so for advise and any information that may be helpful.
Lets all concentrate our efforts on the big players. And by now we should know who they are. The police will find out the truth. It may take time but they will.
These are the ones who need to be brought to account. there is evidence of wholesale rip-offs by CT in the past accounts.
I respect evrybodies opinion on here, afterall thats what the site is for. However I hold Stuart Jones partly responsible, he's known for along time that this is a fraud but still continued to push us into another black hole. At one point telling us that was the only way to get our money out.
Stuart Jones of course will take the innocent victim part now, because he too will be investigated and is probably shaking in his boots.
I dont really care that he has a modest 3 bed house and a family to support. I hope he loses his house just like I'm the verge of losing mine and that his family suffers just like mine are now!! We all know they played a part and we all know where they'll end up!
I hope you dont mind me asking but did he suggest to you that you swap to another complex as a way of getting your investment? I've heard he's working for Adam Sargeant today. Another one of the scammers. Believe me, they were all made from the same mould, a pretty damn dodgy mould to say the least.
I agree with that last post. The whistle could have been blown long ago by those who knew all was not well. Thay have to be help partly responsible whatever their situation today. They betrayed our trust in them to work in our interest, and plainly lied about several issues concerning when and where our money was sent. If they could at least now be witness for the wrong doings, then they might gain at least some repect however small?, and that might be reflected in their punishment. If they are still not prepared to help those cheated, then they deserve everthing they get as continued accomplices.
Agree totally. It may the "big boys" who are ultimatly guilty of planning the fraud, however, every single person I dealt with at O*P - regardless of their level of seniority (1) told me a lie at some point (most of which I have evidenced in e-mails / letters / documneted phone calls) (2) had to be chased and chased and chased - just to respond to simple queries. So they will either have had a pretty good idea of what was going on - or were just massively incompetent nodding dogs. I hope they are all eventually named and shamed through the fraud investigation. I will certanly name them in my evidence. Then when their names and deeds are publicly aired - I trust that no decent employer will touch them with a barge pole, their careers head in one direction, and they suffer financially and emotionally for being implicit, however indirectly, in the scam.
I have just had an interesting conversation with a solicitor in Madrid, it seems that Ricardo Miranda is well known and his name is mud. Well known fact that he is being investigated for fraud and money laundering at present.
I have also spoken to a Punta Perla client who has been told that building work has started but could not be provided with any photos. How strange!
I feel the sooner that Mr Miranda is behind bars the better.
please can you post the name of the individual, name of the firm in spain and the contact address and tel no so we can speak to them re Ricardo Miranda
Thanks
Joey123
Just been told on the grapevine that former OVP representatives who sold us our properties and are keen to resolve our issues are meeting with UNICO in Spain this afternoon and that all clients will be contacted within 2 weeks to try and find a way forward. This may never occur but any hope whether false or not is something. I still genuinely believe that all is not lost, but that continued mud slinging will not do anyone any good. If they are guilty justice will be done. If Tafedna Bay or other similar resorts get built who will buy them if they research some of our comments. Negative publicity at this stage is no good.
JC
It is never too late to return our money. It is not mud slinging people are doing. Facts are facts.
ignore last poeting header - I typed in the security stuff in the title.
I cant believe the post from the person who just said 'Negative publicity at this stage is no good' .........That can only be linked to someone from OVP surely?
On the contrary, I really hope anyone who does research our comments will take head. OVP have had plenty of time to get in touch with all of us on their books and offer a solution, or even look like they care?
I think they have no intention of paying back those cheated, otherwise they wouldn't have done that in the first place and there wouldn't be a very expensive investigation by police and fraud squads looking in to their business!
why the meeting with Unico? If Unico are responsible (as Ricardo Miranda is behind this company, we are led to believe - although originally said to be a joint venture with Miranda and OVP and others) they need to give us the evidence to persue Miranda - if they give damn as they say they do. Of course, they are so deep down that hole, they are just trying to get out somehow. The answer is full co-operation, honesty and hold your hands up and help us trace any funds received and kept by Miranda & Sungolf as you say they have the money. if you prove that and help us with a claim against Sungolf that would help more than anything else (of course a full refund, interest and costs is even better but never going to occur). You know well Sungolf should not have any money at all - it would be illegal, hence the elaborate set up in the UK to take the deposits.
I hope the meeting will result in an estimated £24m being returned to the rightful owners!
Anyway, much has been said many times before of refunds, transfers etc.. .. I am afraid you have landed on the Go Straight to Jail card. Unforunately, is not NOW but later! You treated our money like monopoly money! Buy your way out of jail and give our money back, plus interest and costs!
OVP haven't shown any intention or are even interested in helping those cheated as far as I have seen?. They will just do what's required to try and pass the buck and get themselves off the hook, as they always have! I hope the net's closing at last though?
Has anyone any news about the meeting today? Unfortunately i had to work and will have to continue to work for 300 years because of these animals. I WILL dedicate my life to harassing people and getting answers. Joey Goodstitch and others are our leaders.
Hi
Has anyone got any news on the outcome from this meeting. I have a lot of knowledge on OVP and the characters as I was one of the early clients they roped into selling an apartment and whilst I am lucky I got a property....... after four years, I subsequently was duped into another on Manilva Beach. I dont know what is happening on this development as I went round it and it seems mothballed.
I am also confused as to whether I register as a creditor or not as the money that has disappeared could be classed as a fraud.
What is the latest on the Criminal action in the UK.
As i understand the key OVP guys are now looking at new ventures.....beware.
hello
I made a posting on EOS forum re the meeting - here it is. I hope it helps in some way:
Feedback from the meeting at The Insolvency Service for those who could not attend. Key points:
* The Insolvency Service WILL investigate the conduct of the directors and shadow directors (those who acted in the capacity as directors or (maybe - I'm not sure) held themselves out to be directors
* The vote on the appointment of the Liquidators was made. It was a simple monetery majority by the creditors that led to the apointment of Nick Wood and Ian Richardson of Grant Thornton. One is in London one is in Leeds (I think). A member of Mr Richardson's team can take calls 0207 7282651 - Sam - I think her name was. However, hold back for now, they have to have time to investigate.Their role is to recover funds and turn assets into cash to pay a dividend (eg 20p in the £) to the creditors at the end of the liquidation (I am not talking down to anyone, just not averyone will understand this process).
* DI Spears and his team's 'role (not DI Whitely - I know where you were going here - show some respect to these poeple whoever did the last post (ooovvvppp)- although I note the time as after the pubs had closed so you may not have been posting in fit state) is to investigate what happened and work with other agencies (including internationally with the SFO) the Ins Service and liquidators to recover funds and undertake criminal action if necessary. WHAT THEY DON'T need is mass calling of people. Report you case by telephone, if you feel you have been a victim of crime by OVP, and obtain your crime reference number.
* Still send your reports of your own dealings to the Ins Serv (especially matters of conduct of the directors and shaddow directors) and lodge your claims as creditors with the IS at Manchester (0161 234 8351). Also, send in reports (the same ones to the IS) to help the investigation if you have not done so to DI Andrew Spears (Staffordshire Economic Crime Unit ) BUT give them some breathing space to investigate. The investiagtion on 3 fronts (IS, Liquidators and police. It IS underway and IS being taken seriously)
* The creditors that came forward as of the 1 June cut-off date amounted to £42million. (I think was Sterling not EUROS).
* The was a creditor claim of circa £1m relating to Sean Woodhall's company/Worldwide Desinations - as he has died (I know) in a plane crash his interest will be liquidated for his estate so don't be too concerned. Although, a potential conflict of interest of the liquidator appointed is being looked at and if they find out there is conflict they will deal with that. However, initial assurances made are that there are none. It could be helpful even given the reported potential link with OVP in the past.
* a creditors committe will be formed (separate meeting) later to oversee the renumeration of the Liquidators
* I would like to say well done to the Dean Hamlin at the Insolvency Service. They have done well so far in what they state is a very large case. The OVP related developments from which there were claims from creditors were - EBCC, G of M, Vista Rocas, Tefedna Bay (Or Royal Maroc as previously known), and some others ( around 6 or 7 in total). I just asked around the room. There were a good 6 - 7 lever arch files of claimants.
* A thank-you should be made to a certain Police officer who helped get the criminal investigtion off the ground. I was pleased to have been able to personally thank him. You know who you are mate!
* I would say for now report yourself as creditors to Dean Hamilin, give your information to the police and also the liquidator. Leave them to investigate and get on with your lives for now as best as you can.
* I did approach a few people at the meeting to try to make contacts. I am sure may were sceptical of me and my motives so I apologise for that. Let me assure you, I am genuinly trying to help. I am trying to recover my funds and will to try to help you too, if I can.
* It was good to meet simimarly affected people for some mutual support and also to help with the fight for justice, return of money and to see them have their dodgy lifestyles well and truely curtailed (one day!). Mr V - good to talk to you - keep in touch! I will be in touch soon with those I discuss EBCC with. Mr W (and partner), D&H, BG etc
Try not to post for a while - leave this as the latest post for a while for people to read over the next few days as I think that may be the most helpful thing to do for now and is the most up-to-date information. You can PM me with questions altugh I will be off-line from 3.00 pm onward today.
Regards
Joey123
I invested punta perla, ricarda took that money as well. Perhaps some people can go to singing pig forum, as many people do not want to face the truth, we got scammed, let those investors know the truth, as when I tell them about Ricarda they stil beieve in the tooth fairy. Thanks maybe if someone who has lived this nightmare tells them, reality will hit.
it sure does not look good. they are still talking of construction. it is all rather odd, to say the least. The delays and false promises are staggering. Much like EBCC which has been rumbled (or OVP have been rumbled). I am wondering how RM is linked in with EBCC other than being the devolper via Sungolf.
Of course RM lies rather low!
Joey123
RM IS Estepona Beach.
What mean how is he linked??
He supposedly bought the land by private contract (under his own name) though that now looks quextionable. He received depsosits and made out he was paying for land / contractors etc. Extremely questionable.
He is GCP, Sungolf, Paraiso Tropical etc etc. He has the money somewhere.....probably in Dominica.
Miranda
0034656833468
0034917024697
Ok. what I mean't is Sungolf and RM and on the contracts for EBCC. RM denies having the money, or I heard he said he had returned it. I don't really think OVP sent him the money - they lied alot, we have the evidence of that. You cannot remember all your lies and then tell something different and get caught out!
Sungolf had an option to buy the land at Estepona. Ok, so what I am saying regarding how RM is linked, is, that we know OVP took our money under false pretence and probably spent it. But did RM really see any of that money? DId he get refused the build licence and abandond the project and the delays and false promised are down to OVP as they by then had spent our money and they then were rumbled and running scarred? Why UNICO? Whi is UNICO ecactly? What the hell was going on? I'm just glad the police are onto OVP.
I know PP is being stalled and stalled and stalled .... and there are similarities - OVP sold EBCC and PP (not exclusively). PP is a big joke. He is taking the whatsite out of all the investors and they still believe in the project. I guess some have no choice as they have been tied up in a situation without a stong legal leg to stand on maybe > just speculation on my part
I don't think there will be a PP. I hope I am very, very wrong. Looking back on the crazy offers made to entice purchasers, it does not look very promising. Having said that, it looks like he makes excuses for offers made, somehow, claiming "act of god" - well almost - Force Majore (if spelt correctly).
Very disrespectful treatment.
There is a reporter in the UK working for the Sunday Express covering OVP and other companies. Perhaps he can help if someone were to contact him?
The big question is the commencement of construction. I feel for all those involved in PP and wish them luck.
I am not sure why the Investor Relations dept. seems to consist of one person. He should be putting proper resources into communicating with PP investors.